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The Icon Bar: News and features: RISC OS on new hardware
 

RISC OS on new hardware

Posted by Chris on 11:53, 28/10/2009 | , , , ,
 
BeagleBoard.org logoFor several years now, the need to get RISC OS running on faster hardware has been pressing. It may not be the platform's worst headache (lack of developers is surely the biggest problem), but the Iyonix and A9 hardware are now well past their prime. Even on release they weren't blisteringly quick, and cheap PCs have now left them far, far behind. Things that are taken for granted on a Windows or Mac OS machine, such as watching video, are simply impossible on current generation RISC OS hardware.
 

The options

There's more than one way of fixing this. Already many people (myself included) use RISC OS on an emulator. Whether you use the commercial VRPC or the free RPCEmu, this is the cheapest way to get reasonably fast hardware. However, many people would prefer to use a 'real' computer. For a long time this has looked impossible: Castle have stopped producing Iyonixes, and the silence from Advantage6 has been deafening for ages. However, now that the Castle branch of the OS has been opened up, the possibility of porting it to some of the more up-to-date hardware out there has become possible.

The challenges

Of course, saying it is easier isn't the same as doing it. Just because RISC OS 5 is capable of being run on new ARM-based hardware doesn't mean it's easy to get it working. It's fair to say that parts of the OS were written in a less than optimal fashion. Even with Castle's HAL layer to aid portability, the long periods of stagnation in OS development make porting the whole system a daunting job.
 
In addition, ARM hardware is unlikely to match the speeds of cheap Intel boxes for some time (if ever). There's next to no chance of RISC OS running natively on a standard desktop machine as powerful as a home or office PC. Instead, a more sensible target is the netbook - low powered, lightweight machines designed to perform tasks such as web browsing and running office applications. If that sounds a bit disappointing, it shouldn't be. Most of the ARM-powered netbooks planned for release in the near future will be much faster than the Iyonix for most tasks. What's more, there are plenty to choose from. The ARM's traditional strengths of low power play well in such a market, and companies are rushing to release machines with ARM cores to market.

The OMAP Project

Unlike Intel processors, ARM chips aren't actually made by ARM. The UK-based company licenses technology to other chipmakers, who then produce ARM-compatible hardware. One such company is Texas Instruments, who market the OMAP range of processors. There is a bewildering array of devices with the OMAP label, many of them designed for embedded or industrial uses. However, the catchily-named OMAP3530 is a bit different. It's been used to power something called the Beagle Board, which includes all the necessary gadgets to power an external display, handle USB devices, make use of on-board memory, and so on. In other words, it's basically a computer.



The Beagle Board
It's very small.

No one would accuse the Beagle Board of being a power-hungry monster. It only draws 2W of power, and has some key limitations (at the time of writing, an upper limit of 256MB RAM and 1280x1024 max resolution are probably the most important). But these are offset by some intriguing possibilities. The core processor is very fast by RISC OS standards, and the board also has goodies such as a Digital Signal Processor, which could potentially make video playback a reality. So it's a great a target for a port, and that's why it's been the focus of the recent work at ROOL.

Getting it working

The Iconbar's own Jeffrey Lee has been the driving force behind the project. Over the past few months, a branch of RISC OS 5 has been steadily gaining more and more functionality on the diminutive board. It's now possible to boot up into the Desktop on both the two main revisions of the Beagle Board (including the older Revision B). This has been demonstrated at a number of RISC OS shows recently: there's a screenshot here.
 
The Beagle Board doesn't have a CD or floppy drive connected to it. However, it does have a built-in SD card slot. In order to get RISC OS 5 working on the machine, you need to download the RISC OS 5 OMAP build from the ROOL website, copy this on to your SD Card and add a boot script to get it all working. This isn't really a job for the non-technical user - the Beagle Board is a development board, and is designed to be used by people who know their way around hardware. However, for those with the necessary skills to finesse the problems, there's more detail on this process here.

Progress and prospects

So, is that it? Do we have the replacement for the Acorn- and Castle-era hardware we need? Well, not quite. The port is still semi-complete, and there's a lot of work that needs to be done. At the time of writing, this is the state of play:

  • RISC OS will boot into the desktop on a Beagle Board. You can use a copy of the ROOL !Boot sequence plus desktop applications (called a disk image) to gain a workable system.
  • You can also use a keyboard, mouse and USB storage devices to load and save files. The drivers for these are currently the focus of a lot of development work. Over the past few weeks, the speed and reliability of these devices has been greatly improved. Even networking is now possible through the use of EtherUSB.
  • There are some key limitations. There's no video acceleration enabled, and no audio at all. You can't increase the amount of RAM, and the CMOS settings your computer needs to remember your preferences across sessions aren't stored.
  • Of course, this being a work in progress, there are bugs. Some are known about, other will no doubt emerge as the system becomes more complete.

What Jeffrey and ROOL team have done is show that RISC OS can run on a Beagle Board. This is a massive achievement, and one that potentially means the OS can be run on proper hardware based on that technology (such as the Pandora games machine and the TouchBook netbook).

Chipping in

Over the next few month, we can expect to see further improvements. The OMAP port isn't exactly polished and user-friendly yet (there are still components that have to be built by hand, such as networking), but it's far more capable than many would have thought possible a year ago.
 
What this project really needs is support. Although progress has been impressive, it would go faster if more people were helping out. Here are some ways you could get involved:

  • If you're feeling adventurous, get hold of a Beagle Board and do some testing. The ROOL team and Jeffrey need to get hold of detailed bug reports for both the OS and its associated applications if they're going to be able to make the port complete and stable.
  • If you're a C or ARM assembler developer, why not contribute to the porting effort? The ROOL site has plenty of documentation to get you started. You don't even need a Beagle Board yourself - much of the recent work on the USB drivers is relevant to Iyonix users, for example. There are also other projects, such as getting RISC OS to build with the GCCSDK that would make a real difference. Have a look here first to see what's been done, and then take a look in the forums for further help.

If you are interested in getting hold of a Beagle Board, why not ask on the ROOL forums for help? They're currently available from Digi-Key, but, as mentioned above, they come as a bare board with no case or user-friendly peripherals. With any luck, though, these diminutive kits will prove the catalyst to preserving RISC OS as a hobby OS for the future.

Links

ROOL website - Hosts the Shared Source version of RISC OS
Beagle Board - The current focus of porting efforts
 

  RISC OS on new hardware
  epistaxsis (19:17 30/10/2009)
  Bucksboy (14:53 31/10/2009)
    VincentVega (18:58 31/10/2009)
      Phlamethrower (20:15 31/10/2009)
        folderol (22:21 31/10/2009)
          Phlamethrower (12:06 1/11/2009)
            Loris (19:58 2/11/2009)
            minuslr (18:53 20/12/2009)
              pnaulls (20:53 20/12/2009)
                minuslr (22:09 20/12/2009)
                  Phlamethrower (22:57 20/12/2009)
                    nunfetishist (00:05 21/12/2009)
                      bhtooefr (01:13 21/12/2009)
                        filecore (05:10 21/12/2009)
                          bhtooefr (05:50 21/12/2009)
                            filecore (06:17 21/12/2009)
                              bhtooefr (06:50 21/12/2009)
                                filecore (08:08 21/12/2009)
                                  nunfetishist (10:07 21/12/2009)
                                    Phlamethrower (11:42 21/12/2009)
                                      tank (15:38 21/12/2009)
                                  swirlythingy (13:50 22/12/2009)
                                    nunfetishist (16:16 22/12/2009)
                                      Acornut (17:56 22/12/2009)
                                    bhtooefr (20:30 22/12/2009)
                                      pnaulls (17:39 23/12/2009)
                                        minuslr (12:18 24/12/2009)
                                        helpful (13:59 24/12/2009)
                                          nunfetishist (16:07 24/12/2009)
        Bucksboy (11:12 1/11/2009)
 
keith dunlop Message #111740, posted by epistaxsis at 19:17, 30/10/2009
epistaxsis

Posts: 159
Nice article Chris!

Just a little explanation of the screenshot of my beagleboard that he linked to smile

At the RISC OS London show where I was demoing my RevC beagleboard (mounted on stripboard for a laff smile ) MW was very suprised to see that AWViewer worked after we had faffed around with the fact that none of the emulators support USB drives properly ( unlike a RO5 machine.. wink ) so I transefers Artworks and bloody hell! it works!

I have been distracted over the last month sorting out hi fi and home cinema stuff - should be done soon and I can finally update the wiki of what works and what doesn't in terms or programs from my Iyonix big grin
  ^[ Log in to reply ]
 
George Greenfield Message #111745, posted by Bucksboy at 14:53, 31/10/2009, in reply to message #111740
Member
Posts: 45
"I can finally update the wiki of what works and what doesn't in terms or programs from my Iyonix": that would be extremely helpful. I'm sure I'm not the only Iyonix owner watching Beagleboard developments with much interest and even more hope. Once it appears to be a more-or-less usable Iyo substitute the number of adopters/testers is likely to increase considerably.
  ^[ Log in to reply ]
 
VV Message #111746, posted by VincentVega at 18:58, 31/10/2009, in reply to message #111745
Member
Posts: 7
The only thing that's giving me pause is the comparatively low resolution that the Beagleboard supports. I don't mind the low maximum memory figure, as RISC OS is fairly frugal anyway, but 1280x1024 means I'm more likely to sit on the sidelines for a bit longer and admire Jeffrey's efforts (and those of others) from afar.

One question: storage devices. The board comes with an SD slot. Is that where you're supposed to store your applications and data? Can you format this as an ADFS disc, or do you have to use something like HostFS to communicate with a FAT/FAT32 partition, a la RPCEmu et al?
  ^[ Log in to reply ]
 
Jeffrey Lee Message #111747, posted by Phlamethrower at 20:15, 31/10/2009, in reply to message #111746
PhlamethrowerHot Hot Hot Hot Hot Hot Hot Hot Hot Hot Hot Hot Hot stuff

Posts: 15033
At the moment we don't have any drivers for the SD card slot, so you've got to store everything on a USB mass storage device. But once the drivers are finished, we suspect that the SD slot will be the preferred storage medium. It should also be possible to format the cards for ADFS.
  ^[ Log in to reply ]
 
Will Godfrey Message #111748, posted by folderol at 22:21, 31/10/2009, in reply to message #111747
Member
Posts: 1
Newbie Alert!
Not been on here before, but used to be in the Acorn world a very long time ago.
This looks a seriously impressive piece of work.

I'm wondering if there is any way to expand I/O, if so I could see lots of industrial HMI applications for it.

P.S.
For this, the screen resolution is ideal.

[Edited by folderol at 22:24, 31/10/2009]
  ^[ Log in to reply ]
 
George Greenfield Message #111749, posted by Bucksboy at 11:12, 1/11/2009, in reply to message #111747
Member
Posts: 45
USB mass storage: do you have any read/write transfer rate figures? Is the SD card likely to be faster/slower when the drivers are ready?

(And, as a general comment Jeffrey, I hugely admire and respect your efforts).
  ^[ Log in to reply ]
 
Jeffrey Lee Message #111750, posted by Phlamethrower at 12:06, 1/11/2009, in reply to message #111748
PhlamethrowerHot Hot Hot Hot Hot Hot Hot Hot Hot Hot Hot Hot Hot stuff

Posts: 15033
I'm wondering if there is any way to expand I/O, if so I could see lots of industrial HMI applications for it.
The expansion header on the beagleboard exposes a variety of different I/O pins which could be used for industrial applications. Unfortunately the memory bus isn't exposed, so the beagleboard isn't suitable for all uses. There are lots of alternative boards available, which might be more suitable for specific purposes.

USB mass storage: do you have any read/write transfer rate figures? Is the SD card likely to be faster/slower when the drivers are ready?
Most of the time I actually use an SD card reader for my storage (since I bought a handful of cards for use with the board). For the card I most often use I've been able to get read/write speeds of around 7MB/s, which seems to be the peak when comparing the performance with Windows. So if you're using an SD card you probably wouldn't notice any speed difference between using the SD slot and using a card reader.

Although not all external harddrives seem to work, there have been reports of people getting transfer speeds of up to 20MB/s - a bit short of the 40MB/s USB2 transfer rate, but certainly nothing to complain about, considering that up until a few days ago Iyonix users have had to put up with peak transfer speeds of around 2MB/s!

(And, as a general comment Jeffrey, I hugely admire and respect your efforts).
Cheers!
  ^[ Log in to reply ]
 
Tony Haines Message #111760, posted by Loris at 19:58, 2/11/2009, in reply to message #111750
madbanHa ha, me mine, mwahahahaha
Posts: 1025
Do keep up the good work. At some point you'll have developed the pocket machine I always wanted!
smile
  ^[ Log in to reply ]
 
Luis R Message #112461, posted by minuslr at 18:53, 20/12/2009, in reply to message #111750
Member
Posts: 8
If the Beagleboard could be supplied as a preloaded Risc OS machine for a small additional fee it would attract a whole load of young hobbiests and future support for Risc OS.

Most of us started with machines that beeped and let you straight into Basic and that is something not really available now. Would be much more accessable to newcomers to be able to turn on and go.
  ^[ Log in to reply ]
 
Peter Naulls Message #112463, posted by pnaulls at 20:53, 20/12/2009, in reply to message #112461
Member
Posts: 317
If the Beagleboard could be supplied as a preloaded Risc OS machine for a small additional fee it would attract a whole load of young hobbiests and future support for Risc OS.

Most of us started with machines that beeped and let you straight into Basic and that is something not really available now. Would be much more accessable to newcomers to be able to turn on and go.
I don't think BB is going to be that machine. Mostly because IMO, the issue of cases. The only ones that seem to be available right now are transparent, and I for one have seen too many computer innards to need to see the one that I am using. Also, it doesn't do 1600x1200 et al, which is going to be a show stopper for some.

HP's thin client offering is a better bet here:

http://www.riscosopen.org/forum/forums/5/topics/279

P.S, it's "RISC OS".
  ^[ Log in to reply ]
 
Luis R Message #112465, posted by minuslr at 22:09, 20/12/2009, in reply to message #112463
Member
Posts: 8
Agree on clear case not being brilliant. Could always commision a scaled down Acorn cream case for the Beagle. Donno about the appeal to newcomers but certainly would appeal to original Beeb users like me ;-)

HP looks cool spec - another port from scratch tho?
  ^[ Log in to reply ]
 
Jeffrey Lee Message #112466, posted by Phlamethrower at 22:57, 20/12/2009, in reply to message #112465
PhlamethrowerHot Hot Hot Hot Hot Hot Hot Hot Hot Hot Hot Hot Hot stuff

Posts: 15033
HP looks cool spec - another port from scratch tho?
Not really. Standardisation should mean that a number of subsystems (USB, SD, NAND) can reuse drivers that already exist (or will exist by the time the OMAP port is complete). For other bits (audio, video, PCI-E, SATA) we'll certainly need new drivers, but that shouldn't deter us from working on a port. The more standards we can support (e.g. PCI-E and SATA), the easier it will become to port RISC OS to additional hardware.
  ^[ Log in to reply ]
 
Rob Kendrick Message #112468, posted by nunfetishist at 00:05, 21/12/2009, in reply to message #112466
nunfetishist
Exposing morons since 1981

Posts: 453
Also, look at this: http://www.globalscaletechnologies.com/t-openrdcdetails.aspx

It's reasonably cheap (<$400), powerful, space for internal SATA hard disc, and very quick.
  ^[ Log in to reply ]
 
Eric Rucker Message #112470, posted by bhtooefr at 01:13, 21/12/2009, in reply to message #112468
Member
Posts: 336
That said, the graphics chip is kinda poor.
  ^[ Log in to reply ]
 
Jason Togneri Message #112472, posted by filecore at 05:10, 21/12/2009, in reply to message #112470

Posts: 3865
Are you not just being a hardware snob? How powerful does it need to be if your goal is RISC OS?
  ^[ Log in to reply ]
 
Eric Rucker Message #112473, posted by bhtooefr at 05:50, 21/12/2009, in reply to message #112472
Member
Posts: 336
IIRC, even the Beagle can do higher-res graphics.
  ^[ Log in to reply ]
 
Jason Togneri Message #112474, posted by filecore at 06:17, 21/12/2009, in reply to message #112473

Posts: 3865
That isn't answering the question. Are you looking for higher specs for the sake of higher specs, or is there a minimum requirement which may or may not already have been met (or exceeded)? Is there necessarily any point in aiming at an overpowered base hardware at this stage, as the first order of priority?
  ^[ Log in to reply ]
 
Eric Rucker Message #112475, posted by bhtooefr at 06:50, 21/12/2009, in reply to message #112474
Member
Posts: 336
Let me put it another way.

Its 2D capabilities are, in some ways (maximum resolution, anyone?) worse than the VIDC20.

Max resolution is 1280x1024, the VIDC20 can do 1600x1200 (I know at only 256 colors, but still, it can do it.)
  ^[ Log in to reply ]
 
Jason Togneri Message #112478, posted by filecore at 08:08, 21/12/2009, in reply to message #112475

Posts: 3865
My current monitor maxes out at about a quarter of my graphics card's capibility: 1400x1050. Unlike you snobs, I'm capable of existing at screenmodes of this resolution and lower without going into hysterics about how few pixels I can display.
  ^[ Log in to reply ]
 
Rob Kendrick Message #112479, posted by nunfetishist at 10:07, 21/12/2009, in reply to message #112478
nunfetishist
Exposing morons since 1981

Posts: 453
I'm not sure why they say that on the page, but this is the GPU in it: http://www.xgitech.com/products/products_2.asp?P=25 (1600x1200, dual-head capable.)

It is easily the fastest ARM part I have ever used. Easily. It screams along. It's also quite happy to shovel 50-60MB/s over its ethernet, and similar from his hard disc and SD controllers.
  ^[ Log in to reply ]
 
Jeffrey Lee Message #112480, posted by Phlamethrower at 11:42, 21/12/2009, in reply to message #112479
PhlamethrowerHot Hot Hot Hot Hot Hot Hot Hot Hot Hot Hot Hot Hot stuff

Posts: 15033
My current monitor maxes out at about a quarter of my graphics card's capibility: 1400x1050. Unlike you snobs, I'm capable of existing at screenmodes of this resolution and lower without going into hysterics about how few pixels I can display.
I'm capable of existing at 1280x1024, 1400x1050, etc. as well, but since I treated myself to a big monitor a couple of years ago I'd prefer it if my computers could drive it at its native resolution. There's no reason to believe that other people won't have a similar desire to use high-res displays, especially if they're planning on using their computer for art or DTP, or they have lots of spreadsheets to look at, etc.

Of course the beagleboard fails in this regard (it can do 1920x1080, but only at 30Hz, which most monitors are likely to reject), so I'm all for any attempts to port RISC OS to hardware which supports high-res modes properly. I suspect there are also a number of people who are sitting on the fence and waiting for such hardware to come along - there's no point "upgrading" to a new machine if it doesn't offer any tangible benefits over their current machine.

I'm not sure why they say that on the page, but this is the GPU in it: http://www.xgitech.com/products/products_2.asp?P=25 (1600x1200, dual-head capable.)
Interesting that they list 1600x1200 as the max - with a 230MHz pixel clock I would have thought it would have been capable of 1920x1200. Maybe there's some other limitation to the hardware.

It is easily the fastest ARM part I have ever used. Easily. It screams along. It's also quite happy to shovel 50-60MB/s over its ethernet, and similar from his hard disc and SD controllers.
Sounds good!
  ^[ Log in to reply ]
 
R.Kinton Message #112483, posted by tank at 15:38, 21/12/2009, in reply to message #112480
Member
Posts: 12
This part seems to be available in the UK from www.newit.co.uk for 189UKP inc VAT..
  ^[ Log in to reply ]
 
Martin Bazley Message #112504, posted by swirlythingy at 13:50, 22/12/2009, in reply to message #112478

Posts: 460
My current monitor maxes out at about a quarter of my graphics card's capibility: 1400x1050. Unlike you snobs, I'm capable of existing at screenmodes of this resolution and lower without going into hysterics about how few pixels I can display.
So, wait, your graphics card is capable of driving (gets out SciCalc) 5600x4200?

Seriously, would anyone ever use that?
  ^[ Log in to reply ]
 
Rob Kendrick Message #112509, posted by nunfetishist at 16:16, 22/12/2009, in reply to message #112504
nunfetishist
Exposing morons since 1981

Posts: 453
I routinely use 3360x1050, and am pondering an upgrade to 5040x1050. It's astonishingly useful to have that much information visible at once in some professions.
  ^[ Log in to reply ]
 
Blind Moose Message #112512, posted by Acornut at 17:56, 22/12/2009, in reply to message #112509
Acornut No-eye-deer (No Idea)

Posts: 487
5040x1050. visible at once
Ah! To be that young again, and be able to see at better than 480x352 resolution!! cool
  ^[ Log in to reply ]
 
Eric Rucker Message #112513, posted by bhtooefr at 20:30, 22/12/2009, in reply to message #112504
Member
Posts: 336
When I'm doing photo editing or reading lots of documents, I often hook up my IBM T221. My graphics card can only drive a 2880x2880 box per output, so all I get is 2880x2400 (native is 3840x2400,) but that combined with the 2048x1536 display I have in this laptop is quite nice.

I just need to get the BIG docking station with PCIe, so I can get a better graphics card to dedicate to that monitor. Right now, I've got the mini-dock that has a DVI passthrough, and this thing bogs down badly when pushing that many pixels.
  ^[ Log in to reply ]
 
Peter Naulls Message #112525, posted by pnaulls at 17:39, 23/12/2009, in reply to message #112513
Member
Posts: 317
Specified differently - and I'm not speaking for everyone here, but making a generalisation I think many will agree with - a new RISC OS machine needs to be able to do most or all of what extant machines can, and graphics is a big part of that. Even the venerable RiscPC with VF can do 1600x1200x32bpp and similar, needs to run the same apps (with or without Aemulor), have full networking, and ideally, a case.

I for one don't have space or patience for a 2nd RO machine, so it would need to really replace the Iyonix, which means using 1680x1050 on a shared LCD (1280x1024 is going to look crap).

There's still a number of unknowns about the HP machine, and of course it doesn't have a port yet, but price, form factor and general capabilities make it so far the best choice a replacement for a RISC OS desktop system. That too could change next month with an number of ARM contenders, but we have to work with what we have.
  ^[ Log in to reply ]
 
Luis R Message #112533, posted by minuslr at 12:18, 24/12/2009, in reply to message #112525
Member
Posts: 8
Digikey beagleboard (backorder) estimated delivery is 08/03/2010!

Everyone must be buying them! Will have a lot of future support.

Roll on the clones big smile
  ^[ Log in to reply ]
 
Bryan Hogan Message #112534, posted by helpful at 13:59, 24/12/2009, in reply to message #112525
Member
Posts: 153
a new RISC OS machine needs to be able to do most or all of what extant machines can
Agreed.

That too could change next month with an number of ARM contenders, but we have to work with what we have.
There is a danger that the new ARM machines will come and go so quickly, that by the time a RISC OS port is done the machine is already out of production :-(
  ^[ Log in to reply ]
 
Rob Kendrick Message #112535, posted by nunfetishist at 16:07, 24/12/2009, in reply to message #112534
nunfetishist
Exposing morons since 1981

Posts: 453
There is a danger that the new ARM machines will come and go so quickly, that by the time a RISC OS port is done the machine is already out of production :-(
This is why I've always suggested porting RISC OS to run on top of another OS that is ported or sponsored by hardware manufacturers. ie, run it under Linux. That way, Linux handles all the hardware for you.

This can be done either with a light-weight emulator (with special drivers to talk directly to the emulator's host, thus off-loading much work, such as disc and video access), or several other approaches, each with their own advantages and disadvantages. You could even have code run natively when running on ARM Linux, which a few hoop jumps.
  ^[ Log in to reply ]
 

The Icon Bar: News and features: RISC OS on new hardware