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The Icon Bar: General: Leopard
 
  Leopard
  This is a long thread. Click here to view the threaded list.
 
Phil Mellor Message #104801, posted by monkeyson2 at 14:26, 16/10/2007
monkeyson2Please don't let them make me be a monkey butler

Posts: 12380
http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/07/10/16/its_official_apple_to_ship_mac_os_x_leopard_on_october_26.html

October 26th. £85. GROWL!


So... anyone getting it?
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Jeffrey Lee Message #104802, posted by Phlamethrower at 14:29, 16/10/2007, in reply to message #104801
PhlamethrowerHot Hot Hot Hot Hot Hot Hot Hot Hot Hot Hot Hot Hot stuff

Posts: 15100
So... anyone getting it?
No.
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Phil Mellor Message #104803, posted by monkeyson2 at 14:56, 16/10/2007, in reply to message #104802
monkeyson2Please don't let them make me be a monkey butler

Posts: 12380
So... anyone getting it?
No.
You don't count tongue

Feature list:
http://www.apple.com/macosx/features/300.html

Time Machine is a killer feature for me.
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Richard Goodwin Message #104804, posted by rich at 15:08, 16/10/2007, in reply to message #104803
Rich
Dictator for life
Posts: 6824
You do realise it's not an actual time machine, don't you? tongue

BTW: No, I'm not buying it either.

Edit2: having glanced down the list, some of these 300 "innovations" don't look all that compelling. Like at least three that show better Japanese language support. Or the Eastern European ones, when, unless they've recanted while I wasn't watching, they don't support UK English properly. Or the one that says the animations now support dual cores (basically saying, the last OS we wrote for this platform wasn't ready, so pay for the one that is). Or the one that says they've changed the UI, and then claim UI changes in the calendar app that match the rest of the desktop are in some way a separate update. "Forward as Attachment". "Safari: Fastest Web Browser. Browse briskly. Safari is the fastest web browser on any platform" - not really a compelling new application, especially as most of the other new features seem to be Firefox catch-ups (movable tabs?!?). Application-Based Firewall - XP had that years ago.

I think someone should go through and write a proper list of *actual* *compelling* reasons to upgrade. I'm guessing Time Machine is one, but there's so much dross in that list. Like every fucking one of the text editor "updates" ("Have TextEdit automatically turn Internet addresses in your document into clickable links" - new in Q4 2007? are you fucking kidding me?!).
________
RichGCheers,
Rich.
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Jeffrey Lee Message #104805, posted by Phlamethrower at 15:27, 16/10/2007, in reply to message #104804
PhlamethrowerHot Hot Hot Hot Hot Hot Hot Hot Hot Hot Hot Hot Hot stuff

Posts: 15100
You do realise it's not an actual time machine, don't you? tongue
How do you know? They could implement that feature in a future update, and then use the magic of time travel to patch everyones machines on launch day.
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Richard Goodwin Message #104806, posted by rich at 15:30, 16/10/2007, in reply to message #104805
Rich
Dictator for life
Posts: 6824
You do realise it's not an actual time machine, don't you? tongue
How do you know? They could implement that feature in a future update, and then use the magic of time travel to patch everyones machines on launch day.
And that's how they get everyone to keep paying the Apple Premium tax - they target the insane people.

Example: I was just looking at the Mac Mini on their UK site - apparently to upgrade from the 80GB SATA drive, it's +£50 for 120GB and +£100 for the 160GB drive. I could buy an entire 500GB drive for £100, and get about £30 change! I don't have much less than 1TB in any of my working machines at home, although I'm guessing it's because they're using 2.5" laptop SATA drives. I might as well just buy a laptop at those prices.
________
RichGCheers,
Rich.
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Phil Mellor Message #104807, posted by monkeyson2 at 15:50, 16/10/2007, in reply to message #104804
monkeyson2Please don't let them make me be a monkey butler

Posts: 12380
You do realise it's not an actual time machine, don't you? tongue
tardis

"Safari: Fastest Web Browser. Browse briskly. Safari is the fastest web browser on any platform" - not really a compelling new application, especially as most of the other new features seem to be Firefox catch-ups (movable tabs?!?).
Hmmm, I wonder what will happen to the Safari 3 beta currently installed on Tiger? shock

Application-Based Firewall - XP had that years ago.
XP needs it! tongue

I think someone should go through and write a proper list of *actual* *compelling* reasons to upgrade. I'm guessing Time Machine is one, but there's so much dross in that list. Like every fucking one of the text editor "updates".
My choice picks from the list (seeing as I don't know what else it does):

Automator: Improved UI, UI recording, Command Line Utility, Workflow Variables, Workflow Looping, PDF manipulation. I've only recently discovered Automator, and these all look lovely enhancements.

Boot Camp: wouldn't use it personally, but I know this is a big feature for potential Mac switchers.

Dock: new look. I think I'm the only person who likes it.

Dictionary: Wikipedia integration. Dictionary is accessible from the context menu of pretty much any selected text, so this is great.

DVD player: all of it, but especially scratched disk recovery and image bar.

Graphics & Media: Core Image filters - I assume image manipulators that make use of CI (like Acorn) will work with these. Core Animation - looks very powerful (but waiting to see what developers do with it)

Photo Booth: just incase those vodcasts ever happen wink

Preview: Hate the look of the toolbar buttons, but other than that the new UI and image/pdf processing features are a big improvement.

Finder: Finally they've FTFF.

Quick Look: if it's as quick as the name suggests, this a good thing - especially when using Time Machine with the Finder.

Safari: Been using the beta for a while, and I prefer it to Firefox and Camino, so ner.

Spaces: best virtual desktop implementation I've seen for a while - especially how it integrates with Expose so you can see all the virtual desktops on one screen and drag windows between them.

Spotlight: Boolean logic. Search by filename. Application launching. Calculations (I normally use Google as my desktop calculator, so this will streamline things quite a bit)

System: Guest log-in accounts. Scroll non-active windows. Grammar check (system wide).

Time machine: I get to travel in time and space with Billie Piper? Drool

Universal Access: Alex - a new voice. Sometimes I self-proof-read documents by getting the computer to read them out. The demo I heard of this voice was really, really good.

UNIX: Ruby on Rails built in. Cocoa bridges for Python.

XCode 3: Instant-on debugging. Objective-C 2 (I actually might start learning this, this time). Refactoring.
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Richard Goodwin Message #104808, posted by rich at 16:43, 16/10/2007, in reply to message #104807
Rich
Dictator for life
Posts: 6824
Sorry, but "Dictionary: Wikipedia integration" probably took someone 5 minutes on Friday afternoon when they were working on personal projects. It probably took Legal longer to OK the use of the name "Wikipedia" than it took to code it. It's not like they're supplying the information themselves. It does a word lookup, requests that word from a website, and displays the results. There's probably a Firefox plugin that does that in five lines of javascript - and four of those are for menu integration. tongue

Some things are probably handy - a new voice is nice - but calling them "innovations" is just bullshit*. There is nothing innovative about simply adding a voice pack. Ditto guest accounts. All the "new look" and "UI improvements" only really count as one. And of course it would help if someone explained what "Spotlight" actually was, as "search by file name" seems pretty much a no-brainer for some kind of search application (even RISC OS has this built in!). And those whacky effects in the chat client actually /lose/ it points - even if I had part of my brain removed and so wanted to video chat with some haiku-writing Mac-owning motherfucker, I'd be even *less* inclined now they've got all that shit swirling around behind their heads tongue

Just to clarify, did I mention I'm less than impressed? wink

* "300+ new features - even Leopard innovations have innovations". Fuck off.
+ "Hello tomorrow. The biggest Mac OS X upgrade ever, Leopard features 300+ innovations". Fuck right off.

________
RichGCheers,
Rich.
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Phil Mellor Message #104809, posted by monkeyson2 at 17:07, 16/10/2007, in reply to message #104808
monkeyson2Please don't let them make me be a monkey butler

Posts: 12380
Sorry, but "Dictionary: Wikipedia integration" probably took someone 5 minutes on Friday afternoon when they were working on personal projects. It probably took Legal longer to OK the use of the name "Wikipedia" than it took to code it. It's not like they're supplying the information themselves. It does a word lookup, requests that word from a website, and displays the results. There's probably a Firefox plugin that does that in five lines of javascript - and four of those are for menu integration. tongue
So? It's obviously not worth £85 on its own, but it's another useful little feature that adds to the product as a whole.

And it's not just a browser add-in - it works on any text in any app.

Some things are probably handy - a new voice is nice - but calling them "innovations" is just bullshit*.
Yeah, well marketing is a load of old poo generally. I'm not calling them innovative, just useful!

And of course it would help if someone explained what "Spotlight" actually was
Desktop (and external drive, and network) search. Search for files in Finder, mail in Mail, images in iPhoto, tunes in iTunes, preferences in System Preferences, etc. Hooks into filing system events so it knows what needs re-indexing (rather than scanning the drive for changes every so often).

The new version allows more advanced queries (some of which existed in the API before, but weren't exposed in the UI) - boolean search and searching for text in "just the filename", instead of "in the filename or the content", are two examples.

And those whacky effects in the chat client actually /lose/ it points - even if I had part of my brain removed and so wanted to video chat with some haiku-writing Mac-owning motherfucker, I'd be even *less* inclined now they've got all that shit swirling around behind their heads tongue
Don't worry, for it to work you'd probably have to have a Mac too. wink

"300+ new features - even Leopard innovations have innovations".
I DON'T EVEN KNOW WHAT THAT MEANS unhappy
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Richard Goodwin Message #104810, posted by rich at 17:19, 16/10/2007, in reply to message #104809
Rich
Dictator for life
Posts: 6824
Sorry, but "Dictionary: Wikipedia integration"...
And it's not just a browser add-in - it works on any text in any app.
Obviously. But unless they're shipping an entire copy of Wikipedia - which obviously means it'll be out of date rather quickly, so they shouldn't be - it's just either a web fetch, or a fetch to a Wikipedia API via web-type protocols - nothing innovative on Apple's part. Office and IE, for instance, has done this for ages in the research bar, although it uses multiple sources rather than just Wikipedia. Not system-wide, I grant you, but then Windows tends to be a little more open to non-Microsoft software than Apple's lock-in. God, I never thought I'd ever write anything like that.

And of course it would help if someone explained what "Spotlight" actually was
Desktop (and external drive, and network) search. ... searching for text in "just the filename", instead of "in the filename or the content", are two examples.
So like RISC OS and Windows have had for years and years? Again, not an innovation, practically a bug fix.

And those whacky effects in the chat client actually /lose/ it points - even if I had part of my brain removed and so wanted to video chat with some haiku-writing Mac-owning motherfucker, I'd be even *less* inclined now they've got all that shit swirling around behind their heads tongue
Don't worry, for it to work you'd probably have to have a Mac too. wink
Oh thank goodness. Now if we can just stop the people using it breeding, the world will return to normality at some point in the future.

"300+ new features - even Leopard innovations have innovations".
I DON'T EVEN KNOW WHAT THAT MEANS unhappy
Yup, it's pretty meaningless, especially as it's right at the top of the webpage advertising this shit. Aren't you glad your beloved Apple treats you this way? tongue I thought AppleTalk was some kind of networking protocol. Now I find out it's Orwellian doublespeak, the propaganda they spout to con people out of their money. Pretty ironic given their famous Superbowl advert wink
________
RichGCheers,
Rich.
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Andrew Poole Message #104811, posted by andypoole at 17:25, 16/10/2007, in reply to message #104810
andypoole
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And of course it would help if someone explained what "Spotlight" actually was
Desktop (and external drive, and network) search. ... searching for text in "just the filename", instead of "in the filename or the content", are two examples.
So like RISC OS and Windows have had for years and years? Again, not an innovation, practically a bug fix.
Yes, but RISC OS doesn't do it in less than a couple of seconds, searching both filenames, tags, and the *contents* of a file...
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Richard Goodwin Message #104812, posted by rich at 17:28, 16/10/2007, in reply to message #104811
Rich
Dictator for life
Posts: 6824
And of course it would help if someone explained what "Spotlight" actually was
Desktop (and external drive, and network) search. ... searching for text in "just the filename", instead of "in the filename or the content", are two examples.
So like RISC OS and Windows have had for years and years? Again, not an innovation, practically a bug fix.
Yes, but RISC OS doesn't do it in less than a couple of seconds, searching both filenames, tags, and the *contents* of a file...
No, but it's also not selling a £85 upgrade saying that searching for a filename is a double-plus-good innovation either.

Pretty sure Windows can do what you say, and has done for years... [fx: opens Windows XP filer] nope, it can actually search for stuff in the filename, and optionally something completely different in the content. To search for the same thing in both, you'd have to - gasp - cut and paste the text.
________
RichGCheers,
Rich.
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Andrew Poole Message #104813, posted by andypoole at 17:34, 16/10/2007, in reply to message #104812
andypoole
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http://m3.entitea.com/pics/pic_5580970011890947492.jpg shock
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Andrew Poole Message #104814, posted by andypoole at 17:37, 16/10/2007, in reply to message #104812
andypoole
Mouse enthusiast
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Twitter

Posts: 5558
And of course it would help if someone explained what "Spotlight" actually was
Desktop (and external drive, and network) search. ... searching for text in "just the filename", instead of "in the filename or the content", are two examples.
So like RISC OS and Windows have had for years and years? Again, not an innovation, practically a bug fix.
Yes, but RISC OS doesn't do it in less than a couple of seconds, searching both filenames, tags, and the *contents* of a file...
No, but it's also not selling a £85 upgrade saying that searching for a filename is a double-plus-good innovation either.
No, it was the main selling point for Tiger a couple of years back. I'm guessing they've just refined it for Leopard, for example it'll also search the menus for the program you're in, it's help files, configuration options in the system configuration tool, etc. It's an all purpose searchery thing, really.

Pretty sure Windows can do what you say, and has done for years... [fx: opens Windows XP filer] nope, it can actually search for stuff in the filename, and optionally something completely different in the content. To search for the same thing in both, you'd have to - gasp - cut and paste the text.
I think Vista does, but then.. who uses Vista?
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Jeffrey Lee Message #104815, posted by Phlamethrower at 17:40, 16/10/2007, in reply to message #104814
PhlamethrowerHot Hot Hot Hot Hot Hot Hot Hot Hot Hot Hot Hot Hot stuff

Posts: 15100
+ "Hello tomorrow. The biggest Mac OS X upgrade ever, Leopard features 300+ innovations". Fuck right off.</small>
If you wanted, you could modify the Wikipedia page for "innovation" to say how Apple think "innovation" == "unextraordinary feature". And how Apple think "encyclopedia" == "dictionary".

Pretty sure Windows can do what you say, and has done for years... [fx: opens Windows XP filer] nope, it can actually search for stuff in the filename, and optionally something completely different in the content. To search for the same thing in both, you'd have to - gasp - cut and paste the text.
I think Vista does, but then.. who uses Vista?
Hard Gay Man, judging by the picture you just posted shock
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Richard Goodwin Message #104816, posted by rich at 17:43, 16/10/2007, in reply to message #104814
Rich
Dictator for life
Posts: 6824
No, it was the main selling point for Tiger a couple of years back. I'm guessing they've just refined it for Leopard
Bollocks. Listed in the 300+ "innovations" are:

# Search by Filename
Find files faster. If you know the filename you’re looking for, narrow your search results so that Spotlight searches only filenames.
# Search System Files
Use Spotlight to search system files.

XP has done this for years.

And I was being facetious about XP not being able to search in both filename and content, as obviously it can - the fact that you can have different values for each means that it's more flexible, not less.

And I don't even particularly like XP, it's just a necessary evil. This week I've also used RISC OS and two different flavours of Linux, so I'm not exactly a hardcore Windows lover.
________
RichGCheers,
Rich.
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Andrew Poole Message #104817, posted by andypoole at 17:53, 16/10/2007, in reply to message #104816
andypoole
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No, it was the main selling point for Tiger a couple of years back. I'm guessing they've just refined it for Leopard
Bollocks. Listed in the 300+ "innovations" are:

# Search by Filename
Find files faster. If you know the filename you’re looking for, narrow your search results so that Spotlight searches only filenames.
# Search System Files
Use Spotlight to search system files.

XP has done this for years.
I agree. But IME OS X is *far* faster, since it doesn't have to go throguh every directory to do it (it uses some clever trickery with the way it indexes files or something)

And I was being facetious about XP not being able to search in both filename and content, as obviously it can - the fact that you can have different values for each means that it's more flexible, not less.

And I don't even particularly like XP, it's just a necessary evil. This week I've also used RISC OS and two different flavours of Linux, so I'm not exactly a hardcore Windows lover.
I never said you were!

Anyway, this made me laugh:

Float Above Other Applications
Watch a DVD while working in another application. Leopard DVD Player lets you keep your movie at the front of your desktop no matter what else you need to do.

So yeah, they've *finally* added an "Always on top" option to the DVD player app. I've wanted this forever, and it's taken them since the original release of OS X to implement it.

[edit]for completness, today I've used my mac, three versions of Windows (Professional on my games box, tabletpc on my laptop and home on the downstairs box) and Debian on my server (via ssh)[/edit]
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Phil Mellor Message #104818, posted by monkeyson2 at 17:57, 16/10/2007, in reply to message #104816
monkeyson2Please don't let them make me be a monkey butler

Posts: 12380
XP has done this for years.
Not instantly, and with a suck-hole interface. wink

Are you arguing that Leopard is no good, or that the 'innovative' marketing balls is no good?

Pretty ironic given their famous Superbowl advert wink
http://fakesteve.blogspot.com/2007/09/be-afraid.html
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Phil Mellor Message #104819, posted by monkeyson2 at 18:04, 16/10/2007, in reply to message #104818
monkeyson2Please don't let them make me be a monkey butler

Posts: 12380
Worst new Leopard feature: Daring Fireball has gone all spammy and ugly.
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Richard Goodwin Message #104820, posted by rich at 18:14, 16/10/2007, in reply to message #104818
Rich
Dictator for life
Posts: 6824
XP has done this for years.
Not instantly, and with a suck-hole interface. wink
I think it'd be much faster if I didn't turn off the background indexing feature, although I won't bother arguing the interface. It's... just about usable after you've shot that bloody dog.

Let me put it this way - I can find all the MP3s in my "My Music" folder with the word "coffee" in it*, and the second time I try it, it's instantaneous wink
Are you arguing that Leopard is no good, or that the 'innovative' marketing balls is no good?
Both. Neither. I think I'm arguing that it's impossible to know whether Leopard is any good, seeing as the marketing is so bad. Or maybe I'm just arguing because it's fun. Yes, this.

*Yes, this is the sort of thing I do:
Wake up and Smell the Coffee - Cranberries
Black Coffee - All Saints
Coffee and TV - Blur
The Coffee and Tea Wrecks - Dandy Warhols
Cup of Coffee - Garbage
409 In Your Coffeemaker - Green Day
Coffee Homeground - Kate Bush
Black Coffee - Tricky and Martina Topley Bird
Starfish and Coffee - Prince

Not surprisingly, the All Saints and Tricky versions of Black Coffee are not at all similar.

________
RichGCheers,
Rich.
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Phil Mellor Message #104822, posted by monkeyson2 at 18:22, 16/10/2007, in reply to message #104820
monkeyson2Please don't let them make me be a monkey butler

Posts: 12380
*Yes, this is the sort of thing I do:
Wake up and Smell the Coffee - Cranberries
Black Coffee - All Saints
Coffee and TV - Blur
The Coffee and Tea Wrecks - Dandy Warhols
Cup of Coffee - Garbage
409 In Your Coffeemaker - Green Day
Coffee Homeground - Kate Bush
Black Coffee - Tricky and Martina Topley Bird
Starfish and Coffee - Prince
Too much coffee!

Mine: attached.
instant coffee.png 766x509 118.7KB
instant coff...
766x509
118.7KB

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Richard Goodwin Message #104823, posted by rich at 18:25, 16/10/2007, in reply to message #104822
Rich
Dictator for life
Posts: 6824
Too much coffee!
nO sUcH tHiNg!
________
RichGCheers,
Rich.
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Phil Mellor Message #104825, posted by monkeyson2 at 18:35, 16/10/2007, in reply to message #104810
monkeyson2Please don't let them make me be a monkey butler

Posts: 12380
And those whacky effects in the chat client actually /lose/ it points - even if I had part of my brain removed and so wanted to video chat with some haiku-writing Mac-owning motherfucker, I'd be even *less* inclined now they've got all that shit swirling around behind their heads tongue
Don't worry, for it to work you'd probably have to have a Mac too. wink
Oh thank goodness. Now if we can just stop the people using it breeding, the world will return to normality at some point in the future.
Unfortunately, most of them are using Macs to look teh sexy. tongue

The document and screen sharing features in iChat sound quite nice, mind.
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Richard Goodwin Message #104827, posted by rich at 18:41, 16/10/2007, in reply to message #104825
Rich
Dictator for life
Posts: 6824
You mean have a button to *ask* if I can VNC into someone else's machine? Pah, I'd rather just do it *without* their permission, like now wink
________
RichGCheers,
Rich.
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VinceH Message #104837, posted by VincceH at 23:26, 16/10/2007, in reply to message #104809
VincceH
Lowering the tone since the dawn of time

Posts: 1600
"300+ new features - even Leopard innovations have innovations".
I DON'T EVEN KNOW WHAT THAT MEANS unhappy
It simply means that marketing types are full of themselves - doubly so at Apple.
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Phil Mellor Message #104972, posted by monkeyson2 at 22:30, 26/10/2007, in reply to message #104837
monkeyson2Please don't let them make me be a monkey butler

Posts: 12380
The PC icons in Leopard are hilarious tongue
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Gonzalo Meza Message #104978, posted by winterhunter at 12:01, 27/10/2007, in reply to message #104972
Member
Posts: 105
The PC icons in Leopard are hilarious tongue
They are REALLY great


Depending on how Win-phobic someone is, that could be a strong selling point big grin
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Jeffrey Lee Message #104999, posted by Phlamethrower at 13:55, 28/10/2007, in reply to message #104978
PhlamethrowerHot Hot Hot Hot Hot Hot Hot Hot Hot Hot Hot Hot Hot stuff

Posts: 15100
Depending on how Win-phobic someone is, that could be a strong selling point big grin
I wouldn't be so sure about that, considering that Leopard now has its own BSOD tongue

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/10/27/leopard_install_problems/
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Chris Message #105000, posted by Chris at 14:03, 28/10/2007, in reply to message #104813
Member
Posts: 283
http://m3.entitea.com/pics/pic_5580970011890947492.jpg shock
grin

Why do people hate Amstrads so much? I had one, and it was quite nice.
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Colin Cartmell-Browne Message #105010, posted by Col at 19:28, 28/10/2007, in reply to message #105000
Member
Posts: 89
http://m3.entitea.com/pics/pic_5580970011890947492.jpg shock
grin

Why do people hate Amstrads so much? I had one, and it was quite nice.
And where would RISC OS be in that line up?
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The Icon Bar: General: Leopard