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The Icon Bar: General: Linux on the PC card
 
  Linux on the PC card
  Monty (10:52 22/5/2008)
  filecore (11:03 22/5/2008)
    Phlamethrower (11:11 22/5/2008)
    arawnsley (18:55 22/5/2008)
      filecore (19:12 22/5/2008)
        Monty (22:07 22/5/2008)
      nunfetishist (18:34 23/5/2008)
        Paolo Zaino (13:44 23/6/2008)
          Phlamethrower (14:12 23/6/2008)
            Paolo Zaino (01:56 24/6/2008)
              Phlamethrower (17:28 24/6/2008)
                pnaulls (18:28 24/6/2008)
                  Monty (23:49 24/6/2008)
                Paolo Zaino (01:19 25/6/2008)
                  tokyoracer (15:35 26/6/2008)
                    Paolo Zaino (00:08 27/6/2008)
                      gazza_fp (06:15 28/6/2008)
                        Paolo Zaino (02:16 1/7/2008)
 
Edward Rogers Message #107439, posted by Monty at 10:52, 22/5/2008
Member
Posts: 154
Would it be possible to run linux on the pc card in risc pcs? if it were that could bridge quite a lot of the sotware gap (which isn't processor intensive).
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Jason Togneri Message #107440, posted by filecore at 11:03, 22/5/2008, in reply to message #107439

Posts: 3867
Probably, but it seems like rather a waste of the PC card. Or you could just download and install Acorn32/BSD big grin
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Jeffrey Lee Message #107441, posted by Phlamethrower at 11:11, 22/5/2008, in reply to message #107440
PhlamethrowerHot Hot Hot Hot Hot Hot Hot Hot Hot Hot Hot Hot Hot stuff

Posts: 15061
It's probably a bit underpowered too.

*waits for someone to glue a UMPC to the inside of their RiscPC's case*

[Edited by Phlamethrower at 11:11, 22/5/2008]
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Andrew Rawnsley Message #107446, posted by arawnsley at 18:55, 22/5/2008, in reply to message #107440
R-Comp chap
Posts: 470
It would, however, be very cool to see Damn Small Linux (google it!) running on a PC card in a window on the desktop. Actually, it might even work, since !PC merely emulates a PC hardware environment, so as long as you don't mind VGA level graphics (and no mouse) you might have success.
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Jason Togneri Message #107447, posted by filecore at 19:12, 22/5/2008, in reply to message #107446

Posts: 3867
Graphics? Mouse? Since when has Real Linux (TM) needed that stuff?
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Edward Rogers Message #107452, posted by Monty at 22:07, 22/5/2008, in reply to message #107447
Member
Posts: 154
So I could have a machine with two operating systems, one that makes virtually no use of the keyboard, and one that makes no use of the mouse? Result.
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Rob Kendrick Message #107469, posted by nunfetishist at 18:34, 23/5/2008, in reply to message #107446
nunfetishist
Exposing morons since 1981

Posts: 484
Actually, !PC emulates very little PC hardware. Most of the video, disc, IO, etc is all done via BIOS calls that !PC intercepts and special drivers. Linux doesn't use the BIOS for hardware access, and nobody's written drivers for a version of Linux released in the past decade, so it won't work.
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Paolo Fabio Zaino Message #107692, posted by Paolo Zaino at 13:44, 23/6/2008, in reply to message #107469
Member
Posts: 59
Hi guys,
i've seen this post and I wonder if there is someone here that may know how to obtain WinRisc source code.

In my opinion, this approach to use the PC-CARD would be much more efficient, for the following reasons:

1) Because the computing load is shared between the PC-CARD (for Intel code execution) and ARM Processor for all about windowing, RISCOS stuff etc...
2) Applications Look and feel would be RISCOS like

Of course this approach is more complex than the classic BIOS emulation made by !PC for the PC-CARD, but would be very interesting.

Because linux is open source it would be easier to re-map, wrap, readdressing etc... linux system calls than the original WinRisc project that was related to interface MS Windows to RISCOS...

Just a thought wink

[Edited by Paolo Zaino at 13:46, 23/6/2008]
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Jeffrey Lee Message #107693, posted by Phlamethrower at 14:12, 23/6/2008, in reply to message #107692
PhlamethrowerHot Hot Hot Hot Hot Hot Hot Hot Hot Hot Hot Hot Hot stuff

Posts: 15061
Would the WinRISC source really be that useful, considering that all the PC-side code is designed for running under Windows, not Linux? I'd have thought the main difficulty in such a project would be interfacing the code with the OS running on the PC card, so trying to change Windows code to work with Linux would probably make things twice as hard for yourself.

A more sensible solution would be to run an X server on RISC OS which the Linux apps on the PC card can then use as their display device.
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Paolo Fabio Zaino Message #107701, posted by Paolo Zaino at 01:56, 24/6/2008, in reply to message #107693
Member
Posts: 59
You are right Jef, but as a spare time project just to play around with it to learn more about how to interface the PC-CARD with all the RISC OS would be very interesting...

Anyway the windows-side code should be re-written from the scratch as WinRISC were working with Windows 95 (if I remember well, unfortunately I never had it, just seen some advertise on an Italian tech-journal many years ago).

Good idea about the X server, but not sure about the performances... how do you imagine the PC-CARD app would communicate with the X Server across the X Windows protocol? In my opinion to run an application on the PC-CARD and manage its icons, input box etc... on the ARM side require huge work anyway, but it's worth it.

However to not change the topic on here there was a project to make Linux run on the PC-CARD, on riscos.info there is some details and, as me searching for WinRISC, Peter Naulls seems to be searching for Linux on PC-CARD project... here is the link and you can also download very old stuff for PC-Podule:

http://www.riscos.info/index.php/PC_Card_Linux
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Jeffrey Lee Message #107702, posted by Phlamethrower at 17:28, 24/6/2008, in reply to message #107701
PhlamethrowerHot Hot Hot Hot Hot Hot Hot Hot Hot Hot Hot Hot Hot stuff

Posts: 15061
Good idea about the X server, but not sure about the performances... how do you imagine the PC-CARD app would communicate with the X Server across the X Windows protocol?
The way I'd do it would be over the network. X uses TCP/IP (even for display of local programs, I think), so if you can get a network running between the PC card and the RiscPC then you should be able to start using X straight away. You'd also have the benefits of file sharing, internet access, etc.

Of course the problem lies in the fact that (AFAIK) there isn't any support for network emulation in the PC card software. So you'd have to write some code for that yourself.
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Peter Naulls Message #107703, posted by pnaulls at 18:28, 24/6/2008, in reply to message #107702
Member
Posts: 317

Of course the problem lies in the fact that (AFAIK) there isn't any support for network emulation in the PC card software. So you'd have to write some code for that yourself.
Hm. a look at the PC card pages first?

http://www.riscos.info/index.php/PC

Ok, it doesn't say there, but network card support has been there for a long (long) long time.

Anyway, allow me to slap my forehead at the whole idea. Repeatedly.

I can't name a _single_ piece of software that it'd be worth running on a dubious Linux + PC card setup that is both non intensive and hasn't been ported to RISC OS already (or couldn't be done so easily). And the amount of work to get it all to work seamlessly would be ridiculous.

PS. most things using X = intensive.
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Edward Rogers Message #107707, posted by Monty at 23:49, 24/6/2008, in reply to message #107703
Member
Posts: 154
Yeah alright, so it wasn't an especially good idea in the first place. Never mind.
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Paolo Fabio Zaino Message #107709, posted by Paolo Zaino at 01:19, 25/6/2008, in reply to message #107702
Member
Posts: 59
The way I'd do it would be over the network. X uses TCP/IP (even for display of local programs, I think), so if you can get a network running between the PC card and the RiscPC then you should be able to start using X straight away. You'd also have the benefits of file sharing, internet access, etc.
Yes jef I was talking about the X Windows Network protocol that is a layer 5 (ISO/OSI) network protocol used to interface network applications to X Windows Servers (primarily used for X Windows clients). Personally I don't think that this would be the best way considering the HW in a RiscPC (mine included with a Kinetic, an i586 PC-CARD and a ViewFinder), just my thought smile

But, in terms of coding, it is feasible as the X Windows Protocol was designed for network transparency...

Anyway as Peter said, !PCPro had network support (I used it since it was still commercial product), so, once implemented a full version of Linux for the "PC-CARD hardware", it may be possible to follow this way.

[Edited by Paolo Zaino at 01:35, 25/6/2008]
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Tokyoracer Message #107717, posted by tokyoracer at 15:35, 26/6/2008, in reply to message #107709
Member
Posts: 66
I'd like to know how to run Win95 on it. Just broardens the horizons a bit.
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Paolo Fabio Zaino Message #107722, posted by Paolo Zaino at 00:08, 27/6/2008, in reply to message #107717
Member
Posts: 59
First thing to do is to have Win95 copy wink, better if you have Win95c (Win95 were released in 3 different releases a,b and c), the simplest way is to build a boot Floppy disc (since the PC-CARD don't boot from the CD-ROM).
You can download all necessary things from www.riscos.info (see Peter Naulls link, up the answers here).
Win95 recognize the video driver and let you work at 800 x 600 with a number of colors, but don't try to go too far with the video resolution 'cause it will slow down Win95 and make it almost unusable...

If you have a i586 card (as I do) or 486dx card you can install also Win98, if you have the early 486sx card not, because 486sx processor doesn't have math-processor and Win98 requires it for the "new" Windows Manager MS provided to WIn98 at the time.

I have tried also Windows ME and it seems to work, but i have a Kinetic card with 128 Mb of RAM and 128 Mb of old RAM on my RiscPC for the PC-CARD (unfortunately i still have to bring my RiscPC to UK since i left it in Italy for now, i just moved on February this year).

If you need more help we can open another thread on here or you may contact me on my website.
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Gary Hughes Message #107728, posted by gazza_fp at 06:15, 28/6/2008, in reply to message #107722
Member
Posts: 22

...
If you have a i586 card (as I do) or 486dx card you can install also Win98, if you have the early 486sx card not, because 486sx processor doesn't have math-processor and Win98 requires it for the "new" Windows Manager MS provided to WIn98 at the time.
...
Using BBlean (http://bb4win.sourceforge.net/bblean/) and Opera (even 9.5) with Win98 on the RISC PC is quite bearable. Unfortunately, since switching to Unipod I can't actually connect to the Web with PCPro so using Win98 or Linux on the PC card is now purely of academic interest.
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Paolo Fabio Zaino Message #107743, posted by Paolo Zaino at 02:16, 1/7/2008, in reply to message #107728
Member
Posts: 59
Using BBlean (http://bb4win.sourceforge.net/bblean/) and Opera (even 9.5) with Win98 on the RISC PC is quite bearable.
BBlean and all the other Desktop shell replacements ( other than missing some bits of code quite frequently...) requires math co-processor so they won't work with the 486sx card, but, also if possible with a shell replacement, Win98 installer would stop and not install Win98 on compuetrs without math co-processor wink

Unfortunately, since switching to Unipod I can't actually connect to the Web with PCPro so using Win98 or Linux on the PC card is now purely of academic interest.
Castle tech. sells 100Mbps network cards for the specific RiscPC network card slot that allows you to have UDMA also with the Kinetic installed on, much faster transfer rate than the Unipod (also if you may install Unipod on podule 0 with the Kinetic to give it UDMA, but the presence of more than one device in the same card slow down the transfer rate compared to the Castle network card).

To be honest my PCPro, with the i586, Kinetic and viewfinder (and its disc partition on a SCSI disc pluged on the Powertec card on podule 0) is quite usable with Win98... but definitely too expensive wink

[Edited by Paolo Zaino at 03:17, 1/7/2008]
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The Icon Bar: General: Linux on the PC card