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The Icon Bar: Games: ArcElite - "A"
 
  ArcElite - "A"
  andrew (10:14 7/2/2007)
  Phlamethrower (10:40 7/2/2007)
    rich (11:40 7/2/2007)
    andrew (12:02 7/2/2007)
      Phlamethrower (12:03 7/2/2007)
        SimonC (12:17 7/2/2007)
          andrew (13:34 7/2/2007)
        andrew (13:35 7/2/2007)
          Phlamethrower (14:02 7/2/2007)
            tribbles (14:23 7/2/2007)
              rich (15:03 7/2/2007)
                Phlamethrower (15:12 7/2/2007)
                  blasts of the xtre (18:03 7/2/2007)
            andrew (14:29 7/2/2007)
        VincceH (19:53 7/2/2007)
          tribbles (22:12 7/2/2007)
            andrew (23:31 7/2/2007)
              filecore (19:49 8/2/2007)
                VincceH (20:48 8/2/2007)
                andrew (22:41 8/2/2007)
                  SimonC (10:31 9/2/2007)
 
Andrew Message #98216, posted by andrew at 10:14, 7/2/2007
HandbagHandbag Boi
Posts: 3439
Given that it seems unlikely we will get a new 3d space game soon or Eve online will somehow be (able to be?) ported to RISC OS then assuming a server could be found, how much work would it be just to make ArcElite multiplayer?

Think how much it has going for it - small program size by modern standards, amazing gameplay, a big universe (although maybe it could have been bigger given the difference between the Arc and the BBC) and easily able to handle dozens of different ships at once on screen.

Surely it would just be a matter of limiting the number of ships per system so that hyperspace would be locked if it exceeded say >100 and protecting ships when docked (i.e. to allow time between sessions). Space station replenishment might have to be altered but everything else could stay the same. There could be a player ranking also.

Apart from that it can't be too demanding to update over the network other player positions, status and cargo per system that the player enters and a bigger update on game save can it?

You could be more ambitious with "teams" etc but that would be an additional bonus.

Elite-A was unbelievably updated in a big way on the BBC by one person. Surely an update is possible on the Arc?

[Edited by andrew at 10:15, 7/2/2007]
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Jeffrey Lee Message #98217, posted by Phlamethrower at 10:40, 7/2/2007, in reply to message #98216
PhlamethrowerHot Hot Hot Hot Hot Hot Hot Hot Hot Hot Hot Hot Hot stuff

Posts: 15096
I suspect designing a new game from scratch would be a better approach than to try and update ArcElite. Trying to decompile the game to work out how it works would take too much effort - and wouldn't necessarily do anything to allow owners of new machines (Iyonix, A9) to join in the fun.
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Richard Goodwin Message #98221, posted by rich at 11:40, 7/2/2007, in reply to message #98217
Rich
Dictator for life
Posts: 6819
I suspect designing a new game from scratch would be a better approach than to try and update ArcElite. Trying to decompile the game to work out how it works would take too much effort - and wouldn't necessarily do anything to allow owners of new machines (Iyonix, A9) to join in the fun.
Given how much it has to be kludged to get it to work on RisPCs (and A5000s?), getting something that runs on newer machines would be great.

Haven't several people said they were working on 3D space games? Mr. Tribbeck and some other cuntTIB regular?
________
RichGCheers,
Rich.
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Andrew Message #98222, posted by andrew at 12:02, 7/2/2007, in reply to message #98217
HandbagHandbag Boi
Posts: 3439
I suspect designing a new game from scratch would be a better approach than to try and update ArcElite. Trying to decompile the game to work out how it works would take too much effort - and wouldn't necessarily do anything to allow owners of new machines (Iyonix, A9) to join in the fun.
Iyonix owners can use Aemulor I believe. I see what you mean but the big problem with this is that nobody in RISC OS knows how to do 3d properly or if they do they don't want to go back to filled polygons and anything above is with the exception of SF3000 (not a 'universe' game sadly) too much work for one person. In any case, Elite is a 'classic' and a favourite of Arc/RISC OS users so to have the same game but to be up against other players would be great.

I'm surprised nobody has patched Beeb Elite to network via an emulator. Remember Elite-A was 'reverse engineered'.

Afaik there's no decent open source alternatives either at least that are realistically portable.

[Edited by andrew at 12:03, 7/2/2007]
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Jeffrey Lee Message #98223, posted by Phlamethrower at 12:03, 7/2/2007, in reply to message #98222
PhlamethrowerHot Hot Hot Hot Hot Hot Hot Hot Hot Hot Hot Hot Hot stuff

Posts: 15096
nobody in RISC OS knows how to do 3d properly
I won't dispute that, considering how pathetic my 3D engines are :P
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Simon Challands Message #98225, posted by SimonC at 12:17, 7/2/2007, in reply to message #98223
Elite
Right on, Commander!

Posts: 398
The biggest problem is that it would be very hard to shoehorn ArcElite (or any other original Elite variation) into a suitable universe. Although it looked less player-centric than other versions, the only part of the universe that exists within ArcElite is that in range of the player. Things are randomly generated to appear with in it, and vanish for good when they go out of range (with a few special cases for the sun, planet, and space station). Dealing with that would probably require a complete redesign and re-write.

On the other hand, an ArcElite single-player Elite A modification might be quite possible.
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Andrew Message #98228, posted by andrew at 13:34, 7/2/2007, in reply to message #98225
HandbagHandbag Boi
Posts: 3439
Well that's okay as the game would only be required to keep tabs on which /players/ were in each system and the (I'm assuming) server would update the game on player entry/exit for that system. A simple visibility check would ensure that graphics was not overloaded.
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Andrew Message #98229, posted by andrew at 13:35, 7/2/2007, in reply to message #98223
HandbagHandbag Boi
Posts: 3439
nobody in RISC OS knows how to do 3d properly
I won't dispute that, considering how pathetic my 3D engines are :P
It seemed quite good to me, what was the problem?
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Jeffrey Lee Message #98232, posted by Phlamethrower at 14:02, 7/2/2007, in reply to message #98229
PhlamethrowerHot Hot Hot Hot Hot Hot Hot Hot Hot Hot Hot Hot Hot stuff

Posts: 15096
nobody in RISC OS knows how to do 3d properly
I won't dispute that, considering how pathetic my 3D engines are :P
It seemed quite good to me, what was the problem?
Too slow!
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Jason Tribbeck Message #98237, posted by tribbles at 14:23, 7/2/2007, in reply to message #98232
tribbles
Captain Helix

Posts: 929
I did a proof of concept of 3D with shaded texture mapping (8bpp, special palette). It was pretty fast on a SA RPC.

I didn't really do anything with it, except ACED uses a corrected non-texture mapped version (I found that some of the triangles/polygons got corrupted, so I tidied the code up for ACED - however, I haven't updated the texture mapped version).
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Andrew Message #98238, posted by andrew at 14:29, 7/2/2007, in reply to message #98232
HandbagHandbag Boi
Posts: 3439
nobody in RISC OS knows how to do 3d properly
I won't dispute that, considering how pathetic my 3D engines are :P
It seemed quite good to me, what was the problem?
Too slow!
Excuses !! You had a universe in the palm of your hand :(
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Richard Goodwin Message #98239, posted by rich at 15:03, 7/2/2007, in reply to message #98237
Rich
Dictator for life
Posts: 6819
I did a proof of concept of 3D with shaded texture mapping (8bpp, special palette). It was pretty fast on a SA RPC.

I didn't really do anything with it, except ACED uses a corrected non-texture mapped version (I found that some of the triangles/polygons got corrupted, so I tidied the code up for ACED - however, I haven't updated the texture mapped version).
Fix it! And if you don't intend making a game out of it, release it so Phlamey can. Because he has so much time on his hands.
________
RichGCheers,
Rich.
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Jeffrey Lee Message #98241, posted by Phlamethrower at 15:12, 7/2/2007, in reply to message #98239
PhlamethrowerHot Hot Hot Hot Hot Hot Hot Hot Hot Hot Hot Hot Hot stuff

Posts: 15096
release it so Phlamey can. Because he has so much time on his hands.
You're so kind! :P
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Sion Message #98255, posted by blasts of the xtre at 18:03, 7/2/2007, in reply to message #98241
blasts of the xtre
Suppose you were an idiot. Suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself.

Posts: 326
Maybe Multiplayer Equinox?
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VinceH Message #98257, posted by VincceH at 19:53, 7/2/2007, in reply to message #98223
VincceH
Lowering the tone since the dawn of time

Posts: 1600
nobody in RISC OS knows how to do 3d properly
I won't dispute that, considering how pathetic my 3D engines are :P
I won't dispute it, because every time I look at the maths involved I get a headache and my entire sensory system glazes over, not just my eyes! :P
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Jason Tribbeck Message #98259, posted by tribbles at 22:12, 7/2/2007, in reply to message #98257
tribbles
Captain Helix

Posts: 929
Rightyho then peeps.

http://www.tribbeck.com/software/spins.zip

I have recompiled it (it was flickering badly), but it's not 32-bit. There are three absolute files for 3 shapes:

- Planet is a planet with an atmosphere showing transparency (okay, not alpha transparency!)

- Iricon3 is a small spaceship; not very interesting, but it's a shape that spins

- Tank is a tank with camouflage

As I said earlier, this was a proof of concept written 9 years ago (unless my computer's clock was wrong when I compiled it last), so I didn't spend a lot of time working on the textures.

You can press left-control to zoom out, and right-contorl to zoom in. Or is it the other way around? You'll need to zoom in Iricon3.

Escape aborts.

The planet's a bit slow, but it is quite large. Also, when the polygons become smaller, then the errors in the plotting code become apparent.
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Andrew Message #98261, posted by andrew at 23:31, 7/2/2007, in reply to message #98259
HandbagHandbag Boi
Posts: 3439
Very nice indeed. See, this is a generation ahead of any RISC OS game and as you say you did it 9 years ago. Any space game that used great graphics like this on RISC OS would immediately be the most advanced yet!
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Jason Togneri Message #98281, posted by filecore at 19:49, 8/2/2007, in reply to message #98261

Posts: 3867
You're all thinking the wrong way. I won't repeat points already made (thanks, Simon) but if you want a multiplayer version of Elite and want it now, you're best to look beyond the Archimedes/Elite-A versions. Take, for example, Oolite (slightly drunk and too lazy to link it, use Google) which seems the best contender. Also see the BBS at alioth.net (particularly, an archive search or the Frontier News/inevitable Wiki) for more info.

Now I'm not going to reply any more, I'm off on my honeymoon for the next three weeks beginning at 5am with a 26 hour flight, Helsinki -> Amsterdam -> Hong Kong -> Bali, for our three week escape from the -30'C and snow into the +30'C and sun - Bali, Lombok, Hong Kong. Looking forward to it.
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VinceH Message #98287, posted by VincceH at 20:48, 8/2/2007, in reply to message #98281
VincceH
Lowering the tone since the dawn of time

Posts: 1600
You're all thinking the wrong way.
So are you, judging by this:

Now I'm not going to reply any more, I'm off on my honeymoon for the next three weeks beginning at 5am with a 26 hour flight, Helsinki -> Amsterdam -> Hong Kong -> Bali, for our three week escape from the -30'C and snow into the +30'C and sun - Bali, Lombok, Hong Kong. Looking forward to it.
You don't want it to be too hot, since being your honeymoon, you'll be generating your own heat! :naughty:
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Andrew Message #98294, posted by andrew at 22:41, 8/2/2007, in reply to message #98281
HandbagHandbag Boi
Posts: 3439
You're all thinking the wrong way. I won't repeat points already made (thanks, Simon) but if you want a multiplayer version of Elite and want it now, you're best to look beyond the Archimedes/Elite-A versions. Take, for example, Oolite (slightly drunk and too lazy to link it, use Google) which seems the best contender. Also see the BBS at alioth.net (particularly, an archive search or the Frontier News/inevitable Wiki) for more info.
Is Oolite networked? I can remember. What's stopping a port of that? Of course Elite:TNK exists for RISC OS but it doesn't seem so much of a leap forward as a multiplayer "universe" would represent.



Now I'm not going to reply any more, I'm off on my honeymoon for the next three weeks beginning at 5am with a 26 hour flight, Helsinki -> Amsterdam -> Hong Kong -> Bali, for our three week escape from the -30'C and snow into the +30'C and sun - Bali, Lombok, Hong Kong. Looking forward to it.
Happy honeymoon.
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Simon Challands Message #98299, posted by SimonC at 10:31, 9/2/2007, in reply to message #98294
Elite
Right on, Commander!

Posts: 398
Is Oolite networked? I can remember. What's stopping a port of that? Of course Elite:TNK exists for RISC OS but it doesn't seem so much of a leap forward as a multiplayer "universe" would represent.
Well, TNK wasn't intended to be anything other than as genuine a recreation as possible. I think what's stopping an Oolite port is the lack of a compiler for Objective C (AFAIK). Does it have a more sophisticated universe model that's more suitable for multiplayer?
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The Icon Bar: Games: ArcElite - "A"