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The Icon Bar: General: Aemulor BeagleBoard
 
  Aemulor BeagleBoard
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Trevor Johnson Message #120657, posted by trevj at 15:23, 21/6/2012, in reply to message #120647
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Posts: 660
Next question: When you're happy with it, is there scope for a cut-down version for potential users to try out? If so, what features could be crippled, e.g. 5-mins only, irritating sporadic colour-cycling?
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Andrew Rawnsley Message #120658, posted by arawnsley at 17:54, 21/6/2012, in reply to message #120657
R-Comp chap
Posts: 470
I really think that's a bit of a waste of Adrian's valuable time, Trevor. Most people will know whether they need 26bit compatibility, and if they do, I doubt they'll need asking twice!
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Adrian Lees Message #120661, posted by adrianl at 22:20, 21/6/2012, in reply to message #120658
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Posts: 1571
I've spoken with Neil about this now. What I want to do is charge a nominal amount, via Spellings, for the R-Pi version. I put a lot of time into Aemulor, and it's still my proudest creation. I shall make the BB/ARMini build available for free, for the hardcore RO fans like myself, after Andrew and I have done sufficient testing.
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Trevor Johnson Message #120663, posted by trevj at 23:11, 21/6/2012, in reply to message #120658
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I really think that's a bit of a waste of Adrian's valuable time, Trevor.
I've spoken with Neil about this now. What I want to do is charge a nominal amount, via Spellings, for the R-Pi version. I put a lot of time into Aemulor, and it's still my proudest creation. I shall make the BB/ARMini build available for free, for the hardcore RO fans like myself, after Andrew and I have done sufficient testing.
Obviously I had no way of knowing you guys were discussing this privately. Sorry. But, as I said previously, I'll buy this. The suggestion was based on my (now known to be incorrect) assumption that prices would be similar to before.
Most people will know whether they need 26bit compatibility, and if they do, I doubt they'll need asking twice!
Except if Aemulor runs the old demos, which many people new to RISC OS via the Raspberry Pi will only have seen on YouTube.
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keith dunlop Message #120664, posted by epistaxsis at 00:17, 22/6/2012, in reply to message #120663
epistaxsis

Posts: 159
Except if Aemulor runs the old demos, which many people new to RISC OS via the Raspberry Pi will only have seen on YouTube.
Minor problem Trev - a lot of the demos used to use some very clever stuff talking to the VIDC directly.

Also a lot of them used some very odd screen modes - even if your modern LCD monitor will support them I well remember the few that would run with Aemulor Pro on the Iyonix often had very poor displays.

Also sound is needed too smile
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Trevor Johnson Message #120667, posted by trevj at 08:10, 22/6/2012, in reply to message #120664
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Posts: 660
Minor problem Trev - a lot of the demos used to use some very clever stuff talking to the VIDC directly.
Ah yes, hadn't thought about that. The idea was partly prompted by seeing Adrian had Blu showing in his screenshot.
Also a lot of them used some very odd screen modes - even if your modern LCD monitor will support them I well remember the few that would run with Aemulor Pro on the Iyonix often had very poor displays.
Any idea which ones could be coaxed into working on the Iyonix?
Also sound is needed too smile
I beg your pardon. Did you speak? tongue
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Adrian Lees Message #120670, posted by adrianl at 12:54, 22/6/2012, in reply to message #120667
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It can all be done, you just need me to stay alive long eough
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Trevor Johnson Message #120671, posted by trevj at 13:05, 22/6/2012, in reply to message #120670
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You mean it's stuff which could take a good number of decades? I'm sure you'll have better things to do by then, so please pay no attention to silly requests regarding video modes, demos and stuff!
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Adrian Lees Message #120673, posted by adrianl at 13:27, 22/6/2012, in reply to message #120671
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Posts: 1571
My email is a.lees@yahoo.co.uk. I'll explain as best I can. I love your enthusiasm x
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Bryan Hogan Message #120675, posted by helpful at 14:34, 22/6/2012, in reply to message #120661
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Posts: 191
charge a nominal amount ... for the R-Pi version ... make the BB/ARMini build available for free
Wouldn't the other way round work better?

Someone who has spent only 25 quid on a computer will not want to spend much (anything?) on software. Also the Pi is more likely to have people just trying out RISC OS, and if Aemulor could be shipped with the SD card image from ROOL it would minimise the number of bits of software they download only to find it crashes!

Whereas the BB/ARMini owners will be the long term RISC OS users who are more likely to have old software they need to keep using and will be very appreciative of the work you have put in.
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Andrew Rawnsley Message #120676, posted by arawnsley at 14:49, 22/6/2012, in reply to message #120675
R-Comp chap
Posts: 470
I suspect it is more that new RISC OS users with Pi won't really need it, but people buying Pi in schools might well want to run legacy RISC OS software and be willing to pay to do so (which is more than reasonable).

Similarly, someone buying a Pi to replace an old Acorn has made a huge saving, so it is not unreasonable to pay for legacy compatibility (ie. not having to buy new software)?
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Andy Marks Message #120677, posted by andymarks at 15:00, 22/6/2012, in reply to message #120676
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Posts: 3
In light of Aemulor appearing and the possibility of the RPi taking off in a big way with RISC OS, is it worth petitioning ROOL to change the less than helpful 'Module or application is not 32bit' type error message to mention Aemulor and/or updating to a 32bit version as potential solutions? Could enable more people to come to RISC OS, and, as a secondary effect, generate a few more nominal sales.

I suspect there will only be one product like Aemulor, and given the work Adrian has put into RISC OS on the Pi, it doesn't seem an unfair thing to do.

[Edited by andymarks at 15:01, 22/6/2012]

[Edited by andymarks at 15:02, 22/6/2012]
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Trevor Johnson Message #120678, posted by trevj at 15:08, 22/6/2012, in reply to message #120673
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Posts: 660
My email [...]
Thanks. This is the one I've used in the past, but it seems they never got through to you. I've tried to send you 2 messages (2011-07-06 and 2012-05-08) but they're irrelevant now things have moved on. If you feel like it, please check your spam folder for the laposte.net domain! Thanks anyway.
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Trevor Johnson Message #120679, posted by trevj at 15:09, 22/6/2012, in reply to message #120673
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Posts: 660
duplicate post to be ignored

[Edited by trevj at 15:10, 22/6/2012]
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Trevor Johnson Message #120682, posted by trevj at 08:53, 23/6/2012, in reply to message #120663
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Posts: 660
Obviously I had no way of knowing you guys were discussing this privately.
I take that back, Andrew. It's implied in Liam Proven's RegHardware report from May. Sorry.
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John Albert Bullen Message #120693, posted by JohnB at 17:44, 25/6/2012, in reply to message #120661
Member
Posts: 43
Just wanted to thanks to Adrian for all his hard work in bringing Aemulor to current generation RISC OS hardware and to Andrew and everyone else who has helped support this.

I had Aemulor Pro back when I was an Iyonix user and look forward to being able to use it again on my ARMini!
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Andrew Rawnsley Message #120697, posted by arawnsley at 23:09, 25/6/2012, in reply to message #120693
R-Comp chap
Posts: 470
I don't think I deserve any credit (but thanks anyway!) - this is all Adrian, he's the hero smile
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Trevor Johnson Message #120742, posted by trevj at 12:09, 2/7/2012, in reply to message #120673
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Posts: 660
My email [...]
"You've got mail."
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Adrian Lees Message #120771, posted by adrianl at 02:25, 5/7/2012, in reply to message #120664
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Posts: 1571
Except if Aemulor runs the old demos, which many people new to RISC OS via the Raspberry Pi will only have seen on YouTube.
Minor problem Trev - a lot of the demos used to use some very clever stuff talking to the VIDC directly.

Also a lot of them used some very odd screen modes - even if your modern LCD monitor will support them I well remember the few that would run with Aemulor Pro on the Iyonix often had very poor displays.

Also sound is needed too smile
Aemulor Pro does provide an emulated VIDC/VIDC20, ditto IOC/IOMD, though it has really always been targeted at helping(/persuading?) RO users to move onto newer hardware. I've often considered taking the emulator core and building a machine emulator, to address issues such as the divergence of modern video hardware from that expected by older software, because I'm certain it would be much faster than the available emulators. However, that contributes even less to keeping RISC OS alive, imho.
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Jeffrey Lee Message #120775, posted by Phlamethrower at 13:42, 5/7/2012, in reply to message #120771
PhlamethrowerHot Hot Hot Hot Hot Hot Hot Hot Hot Hot Hot Hot Hot stuff

Posts: 15065
However, that contributes even less to keeping RISC OS alive, imho.
It's a bit of a double-edged sword, really - if people don't have emulators they'll stick to using their old hardware, but if they do have emulators there's a chance nobody will write any new software to replace the old stuff!

Anyway, I'm doing my part to convince people to move onto newer hardware by refusing to rewrite ArcEm in assembler. At the moment it can get ARM2 level performance out of an Iyonix; if people want better than that, they'll have to buy a faster machine wink (Not that I've stopped trying to optimise the code; I just want to avoid introducing large chunks of assembler due to the development/maintenance/portability headaches that it inevitably causes)

[Edited by Phlamethrower at 13:43, 5/7/2012]
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Chris Gransden Message #120776, posted by grannyg at 14:21, 5/7/2012, in reply to message #120775
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Just to give an idea of how much faster ArcEm runs on the fastest RISC OS hardware. On a 1.5GHz Pandaboard it runs at 32MHz cpu speed. About four times faster than a Iyonix in terms of cpu emulation speed.
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keith dunlop Message #120780, posted by epistaxsis at 20:49, 5/7/2012, in reply to message #120776
epistaxsis

Posts: 159
Just to give an idea of how much faster ArcEm runs on the fastest RISC OS hardware. On a 1.5GHz Pandaboard it runs at 32MHz cpu speed. About four times faster than a Iyonix in terms of cpu emulation speed.
I can confirm this.

Although as I haven't used RISC OS 3.1 since the last century I have totally forgotten how to configure it!!!

blush
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Adrian Lees Message #120783, posted by adrianl at 02:08, 7/7/2012, in reply to message #120775
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Posts: 1571
Anyway, I'm doing my part to convince people to move onto newer hardware by refusing to rewrite ArcEm in assembler. At the moment it can get ARM2 level performance out of an Iyonix; if people want better than that, they'll have to buy a faster machine wink (Not that I've stopped trying to optimise the code; I just want to avoid introducing large chunks of assembler due to the development/maintenance/portability headaches that it inevitably causes)
There are optimisations that you can make to most interpreters - I'm not familiar with ArcEm's code - without dropping to assembler. Most of the instruction decoding cost can be eliminated by hashing the instruction into a cache of pre-decoded instructions; each entry in the cache holding the address of the routine to invoke, and direct pointers to the source and destination registers upon which the instruction is to act.
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Jeffrey Lee Message #120784, posted by Phlamethrower at 03:46, 7/7/2012, in reply to message #120783
PhlamethrowerHot Hot Hot Hot Hot Hot Hot Hot Hot Hot Hot Hot Hot stuff

Posts: 15065
ArcEm does already cache the execution functions for each instruction (one pointer for each word of memory!), but I hadn't considered going to the trouble of storing pointers to the registers. The current code is pretty good at getting at registers, but I can see that with some clever use of cached parameters you could cut code from pretty much all of the execution functions. E.g. I'd imagine pre-decoding immediate constants would be a big win. Something to think about when I next look at the code - thanks!
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Adrian Lees Message #120967, posted by adrianl at 12:58, 30/8/2012, in reply to message #120771
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Posts: 1571
Hi, I've released the first Cortex-A8/9 version of Aemulor Pro. It's not hosted on the spellings.net website at the moment, but if you're using a BeagleBoard or PandaBoard (lovely machine, sooo nippy!)....you can email me: a.lees@yahoo.co.uk

ARMini users should go to the ARMini user area where they can download it for free, and collect any other software updates/instructions. (Faster than waiting for me to spot and reply to email too wink )

Enjoy,

A

[Edited by adrianl at 12:58, 30/8/2012]
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Michael Emerton Message #120974, posted by MEmerton at 09:07, 1/9/2012, in reply to message #120967
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Fantastic Adrian!


Good Work!
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Michael Emerton Message #120979, posted by MEmerton at 12:59, 2/9/2012, in reply to message #120974
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Posts: 75
Just to confirm that I have had Aemulor running on my Beagle Board XM and have managed to get Digital Symphony 1.40 (16 Bit + SA) working fantastically with it!

Also Eureaka, Impression Publisher, XStitch, Euclid + other bits, and Pacmania (although the screen appeared to be off colour and quadrupled?)


A+++ class work Adrian thanks!
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Adrian Lees Message #121016, posted by adrianl at 02:53, 9/9/2012, in reply to message #120979
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Aemulor doesn't have the ability to provide screen resolutions that are not available natively, only lower bit-depths. It seems a number of games run into incompatibilities with the native graphics driver and/or hardware. On the IYNONIX pc we were able to supply a MDF that made older screen modes usable on the NVidia cards that were used. I perhaps need to investigate further with new hardware, if the supplied MDF in 'Support' doesn't help. I've mostly been focused upon desktop software to date.
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Seņor Nueces Message #121044, posted by gaula92 at 11:37, 11/9/2012, in reply to message #121016
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Posts: 43
Just to have things in the right place, I'm copying here the results of my tests with Aemulor on the Pandaboard ES.
I have incorporated the modes in the supplied MDF, most notably the 320x256 mode wich seems to be used by a lot of games. I also have working 640x480 and 640x512 modes.

-Zool (Patched version included in the Krisalis CD): works great with Aemulor! Smooth as silk, too.
Audio problems in the Pandaboard ES: audio is "oversampled" because the lowest sample rate it supports is 44KHz...

-Alone in the Dark: works but hangs just when the intro (with the car carrying Mr Carnby to Derceto) starts. Ouuuch!! This one hurts. This and Lemmings would be awesome.

-Lemmings, patched to RiscPC version.
Runs fullscreen (with color problems) after defining more screenmodes.
I get an error saying "Client Manager unable to obtain music service. Click OK to continue without music CANCEL to quit".
Note that I had to rename the "musmod" module to "musmod7" so the game would run at all. Maybe I'm using a wrong version of "musmod" module?
I also tried using the "musmodsc" in "Sim City 2000", but I still get the same error.

-Hamsters: Perfect with latest version! Nice tracker music, too!

-Darkwood: No sound at all, but game seems to run fine.

-GODS: Will play intro song and show presentation (with high-pich due to minimal 44KHz issue on the Pandaboard).
Correct colors. Minor corruption.
Then it hangs the system at the "loading game" screen, corrupting the screen completely. The error seems to be: "Internal error: abort on instruction fetch at &E59FF2BC"

-Pacmania: Works after defining additional screen modes.
Blitting errors: corrupt graphics behing ghosts and Pacman sprites.

-Nebulus: RiscPC patched version works after defining additional screen modes. I have to use the "emulate all screen modes" option. I had to update it's "musmod" file with the one in "Sim City 2000" to get rid of sound error messages, as indicated in the RiscPC patch !Run file.

-Cannon Fodder: Black screen after "loading cannon fodder" message. What screen mode does this game need?

I will continue testing and adding games.





[Edited by gaula92 at 08:48, 12/9/2012]
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Kevin Soulsby Message #121161, posted by krsoulsby at 20:33, 5/10/2012, in reply to message #121044
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I have a Pandaboard ES running Aemulor. Would love to see Hamsters working, where is the latest version (I have found 1.1 on the acorn arcade website) but this only gives a multi coloured screen on loading. Am I missing anything (alternative settings in Aemulor or additional screen modes)
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The Icon Bar: General: Aemulor BeagleBoard