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The Icon Bar: General: 64bitness
 
  64bitness
  arenaman (18:03 24/6/2003)
  ksattic (18:23 24/6/2003)
    moss (19:49 24/6/2003)
      arenaman (19:55 24/6/2003)
        thedoctor (20:28 24/6/2003)
      ksattic (21:09 24/6/2003)
        mavhc (17:06 25/6/2003)
          ksattic (20:43 25/6/2003)
            rich (09:04 26/6/2003)
              thegman (10:35 26/6/2003)
                thedoctor (11:48 26/6/2003)
              ksattic (16:47 26/6/2003)
                Phlamethrower (21:26 29/6/2003)
              ksattic (05:12 30/6/2003)
                moss (16:57 30/6/2003)
                ksattic (21:37 4/7/2003)
                  SparkY (21:44 4/7/2003)
                    ksattic (22:04 4/7/2003)
                    moss (22:55 4/7/2003)
                      thegman (23:31 4/7/2003)
                        ksattic (19:45 6/7/2003)
                          thedoctor (20:12 6/7/2003)
                            ksattic (20:24 6/7/2003)
                              moss (20:32 6/7/2003)
                                SparkY (10:41 16/7/2003)
                                  ksattic (16:04 16/7/2003)
                      ksattic (08:20 5/7/2003)
        moss (19:08 25/6/2003)
 
Michael Stubbs Message #43901, posted by arenaman at 18:03, 24/6/2003
Member
Posts: 107
http://www.apple.com/uk/powermac/

A 64bit RISC computer for not much more than an IyonixPC or a non-existent Omega.

So would you still happily by a 32bit RISC OS machine when you could get a 64bit Mac?

I know one runs RISC OS and one doesn't, but the G5 is a rather powerful setup by the look of things...
  ^[ Log in to reply ]
 
Simon Wilson Message #43902, posted by ksattic at 18:23, 24/6/2003, in reply to message #43901
ksattic
Finally, an avatar!

Posts: 1291
http://www.apple.com/uk/powermac/

A 64bit RISC computer for not much more than an IyonixPC or a non-existent Omega.
A Pentium for the same price is more powerful. Some people would say the G5 is a RISC processor, but some would not. Whichever way, it's not the same as an ARM.

I think the argument still stands that you may find the IYONIX better than a P4 or G4/5 purely because you can run RISC OS.
  ^[ Log in to reply ]
 
John Hoare Message #43905, posted by moss at 19:49, 24/6/2003, in reply to message #43902

Posts: 9348
I think the argument still stands that you may find the IYONIX better than a P4 or G4/5 purely because you can run RISC OS.
Indeed.

An IYONIX does *everything* I want; with the exception of a browser with proper CSS (which I hope will be fixed soon), and a capture card (which is an annoyance, but I can just fit one to this PC if I need to).
  ^[ Log in to reply ]
 
Michael Stubbs Message #43906, posted by arenaman at 19:55, 24/6/2003, in reply to message #43905
Member
Posts: 107
I suppose my pondering was based on two principles - one being that the Apple is of a magnitude more powerful and the other being that is costs about the same as a new RISC OS machine.

I just wondered if it would make anyone jump ship or feel slightly uncomfortable about forking out for a 32bit 600MHz machine at the same price as a 1.8Gig 64bit one!!

I do fully agree with your reasoning, actually. The IyonixPC is fast and runs RISC OS. But not everyone will agree!!
  ^[ Log in to reply ]
 
fwibbler Message #43907, posted by fwibbler at 20:28, 24/6/2003, in reply to message #43906
fwibbler

Posts: 320
On the other hand, you can buy an Iyonix for the same price as a well specced Kinetic RiscPC (they still sell them brand new you know).
Yet the Iyonix is a minimum of 2.5 times faster. A /minimum/!
It's true, that you can rarely have too much processing power but at least the Iyonix is using the fastest ARM processor currently available.
The fact that our machines run RISCOS natively is of paramount importance (to me at least!)
Cheers!
  ^[ Log in to reply ]
 
Simon Wilson Message #43908, posted by ksattic at 21:09, 24/6/2003, in reply to message #43905
ksattic
Finally, an avatar!

Posts: 1291
An IYONIX does *everything* I want; with the exception of a browser with proper CSS (which I hope will be fixed soon), and a capture card (which is an annoyance, but I can just fit one to this PC if I need to).
If I hadn't've forgotten my Win/TV card when I last returned to the UK, I would be working on a driver right now. I'll have someone send it over when they get the time or I'll see how much a new one over here is. What kind of capturing do you want to do? TV, composite video, digital via Firewire?

Hopefully O2 will have full CSS support soon (I can't believe they say it has already, when it hasn't). O2 is (I think) the PS2 web browser, so that should help give it a push in the right direction.

I suppose my pondering was based on two principles - one being that the Apple is of a magnitude more powerful and the other being that is costs about the same as a new RISC OS machine.
It's quite mind-boggling that the new Mac (and Pentiums) can do some things in a thousandth of the time it takes the IYONIX to do them, but so long as people see value in RISC OS, we're safe.
  ^[ Log in to reply ]
 
Mark Scholes Message #43929, posted by mavhc at 17:06, 25/6/2003, in reply to message #43908
Member
Posts: 660

It's quite mind-boggling that the new Mac (and Pentiums) can do some things in a thousandth of the time it takes the IYONIX to do them, but so long as people see value in RISC OS, we're safe.
It's even more mind boggling that most things are still quicker to do on RISC OS.

If it's a thousand times, or even 10 times as fast why are we always waiting.

Doesn't matter how many billions of calculations it can do per second if you can't adjust click/drag things.

The UI is the computer
  ^[ Log in to reply ]
 
John Hoare Message #43934, posted by moss at 19:08, 25/6/2003, in reply to message #43908

Posts: 9348
If I hadn't've forgotten my Win/TV card when I last returned to the UK, I would be working on a driver right now. I'll have someone send it over when they get the time or I'll see how much a new one over here is.
B):E

What kind of capturing do you want to do? TV, composite video, digital via Firewire?
TV and composite video would both be useful I think; admittedly, I haven't looked into what I need properly yet. I'll check round the back of the video ;)
  ^[ Log in to reply ]
 
Simon Wilson Message #43939, posted by ksattic at 20:43, 25/6/2003, in reply to message #43929
ksattic
Finally, an avatar!

Posts: 1291
It's even more mind boggling that most things are still quicker to do on RISC OS.
My IYONIX is able to boot from cold before the monitor has warmed up! I don't often switch it off, but when I do, I normally just catch a glimpse of the "RISC OS 5" banner in the desktop! Can't say that about my PC.

TV and composite video would both be useful I think; admittedly, I haven't looked into what I need properly yet. I'll check round the back of the video
The Hauppauge WinTV that I'm looking at has composite and normal TV inputs. And for less than 50 quid, it'd be a perfect addition. If I am really lucky and I happen to get a driver working, I'll be making it freely available.
  ^[ Log in to reply ]
 
Richard Goodwin Message #43944, posted by rich at 09:04, 26/6/2003, in reply to message #43939
Rich
Dictator for life
Posts: 6820
Can you tell us which model in case we want to buy one? Not that I'm saying that you might take a while, or that I might want to use it on a PC... ;)
________
RichGCheers,
Rich.
  ^[ Log in to reply ]
 
Garry Message #43948, posted by thegman at 10:35, 26/6/2003, in reply to message #43944
Member
Posts: 65
Personally I'm not that bothered about 64-bittiness, I've used Suns for years, which are 64-bit, and I have not made use of the RAM capacity or the number-crunching. The fact that the Macs are so much faster in every respect, not just CPU, but video, hard disk, bandwidth etc. is a shame for the Iyonix and Omega (if it appears) but the gap is no wider than it was with big-ass PCs.

As for startup time, Macs can 'sleep', which obviates this problem, plus they very reliable so you really only start it once a day.

For me the speed of the Iyonix would be OK, but I doubt I'd shout about how much I paid for it.
  ^[ Log in to reply ]
 
fwibbler Message #43949, posted by fwibbler at 11:48, 26/6/2003, in reply to message #43948
fwibbler

Posts: 320
Perhaps Castle should give the Iyonix a 'PR' rating.
The Iyonix 3000!
Has a bit of a ring to it.
Cheers!
  ^[ Log in to reply ]
 
Simon Wilson Message #43956, posted by ksattic at 16:47, 26/6/2003, in reply to message #43944
ksattic
Finally, an avatar!

Posts: 1291
Can you tell us which model in case we want to buy one? Not that I'm saying that you might take a while, or that I might want to use it on a PC... ;)
I'm looking at the Hauppauge WinTV PCI family, not the USB models. I will be trying specifically to support the "Go" (mono) and "FM" (stereo) cards. They use a similar video subsystem, and both output sound to the computer via line in.

It would be possible to write a driver for the digital cards, but something would have to decode the MPEG stream. I'll stick to the analogue cards for now as these push video data over the PCI bus directly into the video card, bypassing the processor (meaning that you can watch full-screen TV without impacting the processor).
  ^[ Log in to reply ]
 
Jeffrey Lee Message #43986, posted by Phlamethrower at 21:26, 29/6/2003, in reply to message #43956
PhlamethrowerHot Hot Hot Hot Hot Hot Hot Hot Hot Hot Hot Hot Hot stuff

Posts: 15097
It would be possible to write a driver for the digital cards
Woo!

, but something would have to decode the MPEG stream.
I expect that Kino/Cineroma could be modified to fit the bill.
  ^[ Log in to reply ]
 
Simon Wilson Message #43999, posted by ksattic at 05:12, 30/6/2003, in reply to message #43944
ksattic
Finally, an avatar!

Posts: 1291
Can you tell us which model in case we want to buy one? Not that I'm saying that you might take a while, or that I might want to use it on a PC... ;)
Just to let you know, I found out yesterday that the Hauppauge cards can't be used in the IYONIX because they are the wrong voltage. Not to worry, the Pinnacle PCTV Rave is a universal 3.3/5V card and is available for as little as 30 quid.

I'm trying to port the Linux driver as we speak.
  ^[ Log in to reply ]
 
John Hoare Message #44010, posted by moss at 16:57, 30/6/2003, in reply to message #43999

Posts: 9348
I'm trying to port the Linux driver as we speak.
Bl:o:ody hell :)

Do I get anything I want if I mention it on this thread? How about a free complimentary IYONIX, Jack? :P
  ^[ Log in to reply ]
 
Simon Wilson Message #44070, posted by ksattic at 21:37, 4/7/2003, in reply to message #43999
ksattic
Finally, an avatar!

Posts: 1291
The TV card works on the IYONIX - video overlay with 0% processor usage and frame capture too.

I'll be releasing the driver soon. I've got the composite video input working so now I have to write a driver for the TV tuner on the board.

:D
  ^[ Log in to reply ]
 
Gavin Smith Message #44071, posted by SparkY at 21:44, 4/7/2003, in reply to message #44070
Danger! Danger! High Voltage!
Posts: 695
/me kisses Simon's feet and prays to God for a bank error, leaving an extra 1400 quid in his account. Iyonix here I come! Moss, I'll race you to see who can afford it first ;)
  ^[ Log in to reply ]
 
Simon Wilson Message #44072, posted by ksattic at 22:04, 4/7/2003, in reply to message #44071
ksattic
Finally, an avatar!

Posts: 1291
/me kisses Simon's feet and prays to God for a bank error, leaving an extra 1400 quid in his account. Iyonix here I come! Moss, I'll race you to see who can afford it first ;)
:)

I don't know why, but it was really satisfying to see the TV "static" when I fired up the tuner! I've just got to figure out how to change the channel number, and that's it!
  ^[ Log in to reply ]
 
John Hoare Message #44073, posted by moss at 22:55, 4/7/2003, in reply to message #44071

Posts: 9348
/me kisses Simon's feet and prays to God for a bank error, leaving an extra 1400 quid in his account.
I missed all this! Bloody hell, this is amazing! /me kisses Simon also :E

Iyonix here I come! Moss, I'll race you to see who can afford it first ;)
I could get it in two months on credit if I could get a job :|:(
  ^[ Log in to reply ]
 
Garry Message #44074, posted by thegman at 23:31, 4/7/2003, in reply to message #44073
Member
Posts: 65
Simon! You the man!

Garry
  ^[ Log in to reply ]
 
Simon Wilson Message #44078, posted by ksattic at 08:20, 5/7/2003, in reply to message #44073
ksattic
Finally, an avatar!

Posts: 1291
I missed all this! Bloody hell, this is amazing! /me kisses Simon also :E
Somewhere, Simon's girlfriend gets very jealous... ;)

Seriously, thanks for all the kind words, guys. I'll try to get some kind of website up over the weekend to give you all a bit more info on the compatible TV cards and driver/TV viewer software.
  ^[ Log in to reply ]
 
Simon Wilson Message #44097, posted by ksattic at 19:45, 6/7/2003, in reply to message #44074
ksattic
Finally, an avatar!

Posts: 1291
I've put up some more information on the TV card here - more to come soon:

http://ucsu.colorado.edu/~wilsonsl/iyonix/tvcard.html
  ^[ Log in to reply ]
 
fwibbler Message #44098, posted by fwibbler at 20:12, 6/7/2003, in reply to message #44097
fwibbler

Posts: 320
Am I right in thinking that in order to perform video capture, the machine needs to be able to encode the mpeg in real time?
If so, I suspect the Iyonix will not be capable of it.
Hopefully I'm wrong. I'd like to be able to capture at full screen resolution.
Cheers!
  ^[ Log in to reply ]
 
Simon Wilson Message #44099, posted by ksattic at 20:24, 6/7/2003, in reply to message #44098
ksattic
Finally, an avatar!

Posts: 1291
Am I right in thinking that in order to perform video capture, the machine needs to be able to encode the mpeg in real time?
If so, I suspect the Iyonix will not be capable of it.
With the PCTV Rave, yes it does. However, the PCTV "Studio" cards have an MPEG encoder on board, so the IYONIX presumably would just have to dump the data to disc (and it can happily do that at around 20 megs per second.) :)

Cheers for the article, Moss!
  ^[ Log in to reply ]
 
John Hoare Message #44100, posted by moss at 20:32, 6/7/2003, in reply to message #44099

Posts: 9348
Cheers for the article, Moss!
I think we should all be thanking you :)
  ^[ Log in to reply ]
 
Gavin Smith Message #44508, posted by SparkY at 10:41, 16/7/2003, in reply to message #44100
Danger! Danger! High Voltage!
Posts: 695
Simon's updated his page again - "Update (15th July 2003): Horizontal and vertical scaling now works perfectly, so the video can be scaled to any size in a window using the TV card's hardware."

Yum!
  ^[ Log in to reply ]
 
Simon Wilson Message #44534, posted by ksattic at 16:04, 16/7/2003, in reply to message #44508
ksattic
Finally, an avatar!

Posts: 1291
Yum!
:D

Just had my first "success" report from one of my testers!
  ^[ Log in to reply ]
 

The Icon Bar: General: 64bitness