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The Icon Bar: General: OpenGL
 
  OpenGL
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Adrian Lees Message #67159, posted by adrianl at 01:00, 2/7/2005, in reply to message #67148
Member
Posts: 1637
Simon, I can be found on #netsurf on irc.freenode.org:6667 as 'adrianl' most of the time, and have a bad habit of working all night so probably at a time that'll be handy for you too!

I have some low-level logging code (provides a log_printf() function that works as per printf) which is very useful if you're experiencing serious crashes/lack of screen output etc, so don't waste a lot of time trying to debug any low-level problems.

I'm also working on building non-blocking hw ops into Geminus and - possibly - screen cacheing, since I've just discovered that it gives about 60% faster screen reading (unless we can find a way to sort out background blending properly?!). Combined with the other code in Geminus, much of which is already proven, I think I can accelerate the desktop & existing apps without the need for a new API :E

As I said, I've no plans to do 3D stuff in Geminus, so I'm leaving that all to you, but I'll be glad to help you make this happen!


:flamethrower: had better buy himself an iyo and start writing some GL games, or else!
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Simon Wilson Message #67202, posted by ksattic at 07:01, 5/7/2005, in reply to message #67159
ksattic
Finally, an avatar!

Posts: 1291
HARDWARE 3D ON IYONIX LIVES!!!!!!!!111 (yes, it's the teapot!)

Sorry, but I am REALLY excited!

Screenshots and demo coming soon...
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Adrian Lees Message #67203, posted by adrianl at 08:44, 5/7/2005, in reply to message #67202
Member
Posts: 1637
HARDWARE 3D ON IYONIX LIVES!!!!!!!!111 (yes, it's the teapot!)

Sorry, but I am REALLY excited!

Screenshots and demo coming soon...
Yay! (chanting) "Teapot! Teapot! Teapot!" ;)

I disappear from IRC for an hour (to concentrate on work!), and he goes and gets it working :|

Adrian
*holding breath until demo arrives*
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Phil Mellor Message #67204, posted by monkeyson2 at 10:05, 5/7/2005, in reply to message #67203
monkeyson2Please don't let them make me be a monkey butler

Posts: 12380
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This is really rather fab. I wish I'd kept my computer graphics coursework now to test this with (walking around a 3D house populated by portraits of rolf harris, and grand pianos...)


:teapot:

Belated congratulations on the engagement as well :)
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Phil Mellor Message #67205, posted by monkeyson2 at 12:11, 5/7/2005, in reply to message #67204
monkeyson2Please don't let them make me be a monkey butler

Posts: 12380
Question: would a GPL release cause problems for commercial games? (Or Iyonix updates of old commercial games?) What about the LGPL?
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Richard Goodwin Message #67206, posted by rich at 12:15, 5/7/2005, in reply to message #67205
Rich
Dictator for life
Posts: 6827
AFAIK the GPL applies to the API and any changes you make to that. It doesn't apply to the software that merely uses that API - unless for some strange reason you include part of the code in your own binaries.
________
RichGCheers,
Rich.
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Jeffrey Lee Message #67207, posted by Phlamethrower at 13:48, 5/7/2005, in reply to message #67206
PhlamethrowerHot Hot Hot Hot Hot Hot Hot Hot Hot Hot Hot Hot Hot stuff

Posts: 15100
AFAIK the GPL applies to the API and any changes you make to that. It doesn't apply to the software that merely uses that API - unless for some strange reason you include part of the code in your own binaries.
I think that's what the LGPL is for - allowing you to link open source libraries with commercial products (and therefore distribute them as part of a commercial product).

*goes to check on the latest iyonix special offer*
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Richard Goodwin Message #67208, posted by rich at 14:19, 5/7/2005, in reply to message #67207
Rich
Dictator for life
Posts: 6827
Wouldn't getting the libraries out to as many people as possible (e.g. Iyonix updates) and then produce the game - no bundling required?
________
RichGCheers,
Rich.
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JMB Message #67209, posted by jmb at 15:23, 5/7/2005, in reply to message #67205
Member
Posts: 467
Question: would a GPL release cause problems for commercial games? (Or Iyonix updates of old commercial games?) What about the LGPL?
Mesa is licensed under the XFree86 licence (which is essentially the MIT licence - http://www.opensource.org/licenses/mit-license.php). Certain components are licensed under the LGPL (although most of these are specific hardware drivers. The GLU library is also LGPLed). The licensing status of the BeOS nVidia stuff is another matter, however, and appears to be particularly unclear.

So, assuming that the LGPL is the most "restrictive" licence that applies to the source and that binaries which use Mesa are statically linked, the distribution of those binaries must be subject to the LGPL (dynamic linking isn't really an option on RISC OS yet and I suspect that making Mesa a module is just plain OTT). For a far more in-depth discussion of the implications of this, read the UnixLib Copyright file (as it, too, is subject, in part, to the LGPL).
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Peter Naulls Message #67210, posted by pnaulls at 15:36, 5/7/2005, in reply to message #67206
Member
Posts: 317
AFAIK the GPL applies to the API and any changes you make to that. It doesn't apply to the software that merely uses that API - unless for some strange reason you include part of the code in your own binaries.
It certainly _does_ apply to software using the API. Or in more practical terms, linking to it, dynamically or otherwise.

The GPL FAQ mentions this in some detail:

http://www.fsf.org/licensing/licenses/gpl-faq.html

The LPGL has slightly different requirements for commercial use; this too is mentioned here.
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Phil Mellor Message #67214, posted by monkeyson2 at 17:43, 5/7/2005, in reply to message #67210
monkeyson2Please don't let them make me be a monkey butler

Posts: 12380
What sort of scope is there for producing a common API here, so that the one game can be accelerated by different hardware? (assuming drivers can be written)

eg.

- Iyonix (NVidia)
- Virtual Acorn (pass on for the host machine to deal with)
- RiscPC+Viewfinder (ATI iirc)
- A9home (for 2D at least, not sure about 3D?)
- Omega + Lightning :flyingpig:


[Edited by monkeyson2 at 17:44, 5/7/2005]
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Simon Wilson Message #67216, posted by ksattic at 18:07, 5/7/2005, in reply to message #67214
ksattic
Finally, an avatar!

Posts: 1291
Thanks for the congratulations! :)

What sort of scope is there for producing a common API here, so that the one game can be accelerated by different hardware? (assuming drivers can be written)
The OpenGL API is *the* world standard for 3D graphics, as there are implementations for just about all modern operating systems. Many games are written on top of OpenGL, meaning they can easily be ported. Mesa is just an open-source implementation of OpenGL.

Mesa allows plug-in 3D drivers to be written, and I ported the BeOS one to RISC OS. A similar one could be written for another 3D chipset.

If A9home and Omega ever get accelerated 3D, then an OpenGL API would definitely be a great choice. I see no reason why Virtual RiscPC could not pass OpenGL rendering calls to the host OS.

Edit: by the way, that screenshot on the front page really is from the Iyonix - it wasn't found online! It compares nicely to software Mesa implementations I've seen, which produce jagged, horrible looking shading. The lighting in this really nicely defines the shape of the object.

[Edited by ksattic at 19:44, 5/7/2005]
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Phil Mellor Message #67233, posted by monkeyson2 at 23:45, 5/7/2005, in reply to message #67216
monkeyson2Please don't let them make me be a monkey butler

Posts: 12380
Mesa allows plug-in 3D drivers to be written, and I ported the BeOS one to RISC OS. A similar one could be written for another 3D chipset.
Would the games need recompiling, with a different !runimage for each driver?

Edit: by the way, that screenshot on the front page really is from the Iyonix - it wasn't found online! It compares nicely to software Mesa implementations I've seen, which produce jagged, horrible looking shading. The lighting in this really nicely defines the shape of the object.
Yes, it looks lovely :) Can't wait for the demo!

I think Castle should host a competition for producing the best 3D whizzy Iyonix logo. Something to show off the machine at shows.
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Simon Wilson Message #67251, posted by ksattic at 17:20, 6/7/2005, in reply to message #67233
ksattic
Finally, an avatar!

Posts: 1291
Would the games need recompiling, with a different !runimage for each driver?
At the moment, yes, till we have full ELF support in RISC OS (meaning that libraries can be pulled in at runtime as on Linux or Windows). The other option would be to create a 3D module. This may be a good way to go, and that way you could even have a small C OpenGL API that runs on top. It would also open up OpenGL to BASIC. :)

I think Castle should host a competition for producing the best 3D whizzy Iyonix logo. Something to show off the machine at shows.
Good idea! I've got a couple of things to test and tidy up before I release a demo myself.
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Richard Goodwin Message #67255, posted by rich at 18:39, 6/7/2005, in reply to message #67251
Rich
Dictator for life
Posts: 6827
It would also open up OpenGL to BASIC. :)
Wayhey!

Although I don't have an Iyonix.
________
RichGCheers,
Rich.
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Simon Wilson Message #67288, posted by ksattic at 17:03, 7/7/2005, in reply to message #67255
ksattic
Finally, an avatar!

Posts: 1291
More coverage: http://haikunews.org/
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Lewis Westbury Message #67664, posted by instantiator at 11:40, 15/7/2005, in reply to message #67288
Member
Posts: 365
Might be getting an iyonix if you pull this off. :)

Any chance of integrating your port of Mesa with the SDL port already lurking at the UPP?

Also - what news? Not much expertise (yet), but this is an offer of help and stuff (even if its just tidying up).
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Lewis Westbury Message #68846, posted by instantiator at 17:04, 2/9/2005, in reply to message #67288
Member
Posts: 365
Superhero!

http://www.simonrules.com/iyonixmesa/
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Jeffrey Lee Message #68847, posted by Phlamethrower at 17:56, 2/9/2005, in reply to message #68846
PhlamethrowerHot Hot Hot Hot Hot Hot Hot Hot Hot Hot Hot Hot Hot stuff

Posts: 15100
Yay! :E
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Jeffrey Lee Message #68849, posted by Phlamethrower at 18:14, 2/9/2005, in reply to message #68847
PhlamethrowerHot Hot Hot Hot Hot Hot Hot Hot Hot Hot Hot Hot Hot stuff

Posts: 15100
Bah, drobe beat me to it. Why couldn't you have brought this to my attention an hour earlier? :P

*checks his mail*

Tsk, even Simon didn't tell us until after drobe had made their article. Don't you love us anymore? :(
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Simon Wilson Message #68851, posted by ksattic at 18:48, 2/9/2005, in reply to message #68849
ksattic
Finally, an avatar!

Posts: 1291
Tsk, even Simon didn't tell us until after drobe had made their article. Don't you love us anymore? :(
I made the website live late last night and posted a message to #netsurf before I went to bed, intending to email the news sites in the morning. When I woke up, Drobe already had the article and I emailed TIB right away.

Yes, I still love you.

Not in /that/ way.

Stop looking at me like that.
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Jeffrey Lee Message #68853, posted by Phlamethrower at 19:07, 2/9/2005, in reply to message #68851
PhlamethrowerHot Hot Hot Hot Hot Hot Hot Hot Hot Hot Hot Hot Hot stuff

Posts: 15100
OK. In that case,

#netsurf, don't you love us anymore? :(
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JMB Message #68858, posted by jmb at 19:27, 2/9/2005, in reply to message #68853
Member
Posts: 467
OK. In that case,

#netsurf, don't you love us anymore? :(
Blame rjw's nefarious use of MSN to tell Chris. :P
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Adrian Lees Message #68866, posted by adrianl at 01:34, 3/9/2005, in reply to message #68853
Member
Posts: 1637
OK. In that case,

#netsurf, don't you love us anymore? :(
Sorry, I was too busy playing with a teapot :)
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Jeffrey Lee Message #68867, posted by Phlamethrower at 01:42, 3/9/2005, in reply to message #68866
PhlamethrowerHot Hot Hot Hot Hot Hot Hot Hot Hot Hot Hot Hot Hot stuff

Posts: 15100
OK. In that case,

#netsurf, don't you love us anymore? :(
Sorry, I was too busy playing with a teapot :)
And you didn't even make me any tea! :P
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The Icon Bar: General: OpenGL