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Suggestions for game in development |
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Andrew |
Message #84785, posted by andreww at 23:45, 10/11/2000 |
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Just out of general interest and making no promises I'm afraid:
Does anybody have any features they would like to see in a 2d exploration game I'm working on?
Pleae bear in mind that if they're extravagant I probably wouldn't be able to include them but at least it's a starting point!
The game will have a player view similar to the Chaos Engine but hopefully with bigger graphics and quite a lot more depth. |
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Andrew |
Message #84786, posted by andreww at 23:46, 10/11/2000, in reply to message #84785 |
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Sorry, The title of this thread should say GAME in development! |
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Tim Fountain |
Message #84787, posted by tfountain at 12:47, 11/11/2000, in reply to message #84786 |
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Edited. Have you decided on the storyline/aim of the game? It's difficult to think of features without knowing that. |
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Andrew |
Message #84788, posted by andreww at 15:50, 11/11/2000, in reply to message #84787 |
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I have written a short background story to the game but it's not currently on line I've just discovered. The website is: www.aweston.redhotant.com and I'll put it there soon as this is to be redesigned hopefully to look more like a serious project.
Anyway the story is basically a quest for a fabled planet which will involve searching through a galaxy of about 60 huge planet surfaces solving a series of puzzles and missions which will reveal themselves as you talk to the planet inhabitants on the way. The view is top -dwon as stated and there is space travel between the planets in an Exodus-style but with the illsuion of 3d passage through the stars. There won;t be Elite-style graphics in the space scenerios but certainly there will be encounters like in Exodus.
As for the missions on the planets and the encounters in space they are very flexibel e.g. transport, escort, combat, surveillance, sabotage, simple collection and delivery.
So if you have any ideas with this in mind, relating to graphical effects, in-game digital animated scenes (are these called cut-scenes?), specific missions, alien types or anything else yu'd like to see under the heading of a space-orientated exploration game then please say.Regards, Andew |
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Andrew |
Message #84789, posted by andreww at 15:58, 11/11/2000, in reply to message #84788 |
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Additional -
the game is planned to be commercial and released on CD which will allow for the graphics and the music which I am creating. There will eventually be a better demo than the one currently available on the site with a definite goal. After this, it will probably be necessary to keep things quiet until final release.
Nathan Walker from VOTI has given me enormous help so far in this project and it is planned to be released by VOTI.
I'm currently adding to graphics but areas Im looking into are better music software and digital movies (for short in-game graphical animations to give the impression of a storyline).
I've been hoping for Artex to release TEK and ID fro a long time as the ideas they've incorporated into their games so far have been a big inspiration. At least something to aim for as I couldn't obviously do some of the things they've been able to!!
So, any ideas please post them here! |
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Rich Mackin |
Message #84790, posted by arkick at 05:23, 15/11/2000, in reply to message #84789 |
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Umm... 2D? Sorry, but to turn heads you need 3D these days. |
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Lee Johnston |
Message #84791, posted by johnstlr at 09:31, 15/11/2000, in reply to message #84790 |
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*pulls out latest Edge* Capcom Vs SNK (Dreamcast)
Fantavision (Playstation 2)
Gradius III & IV (Playstation 2)
Slipheed: The Lost Planet (Playstation 2) Are all 2D games. While this definitely represents a minority it's interesting that the games are on the two most powerful consoles currently available in some form. Closer to home EMD and Tek will also both be 2D. At my university the most popular arcade game is probably Puzzle Bobble. <Rant> This whole 2D/3D thing really gets on my nerves for two main reasons. Firstly when someone like Andrew decides to have a go his efforts are belittled because "they're not 3D man". Secondly the people who make those comments probably haven't had a go themselves. Frankly the time, effort and resources required to make a 3D game that can compete against a PC game are beyond the few developers we have left. I have some idea of how long Sunburst took to write, and also how long VOTI have been working on EMD. The timescales involved would stagger most people here. Personally I don't think 3D is required to turn heads. With a decent graphics artist and proper presentation a 2D game is just as capable of doing the same. Unfortunately these resources are probably beyond the RISC OS market as well right now. To be honest they're also beyond the PC market in some respects. According to John Carmack Id Software don't really make games, just demos to sell their engines (and I really have to agree with this - Quake is naff) and Epic now concentrate on the Unreal engine to the exclusion of everything else - even licensing the engine - they have other people doing that for them. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but rather than belittling Andrews efforts, perhaps people could offer constructive criticism, or, even better, supply Andrew with a fully specced 3D Engine. </Rant>
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Andrew |
Message #84792, posted by andreww at 17:06, 15/11/2000, in reply to message #84791 |
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Well Richard you've given exactly the kind of reply I was expecting from at least one person!
Question: Have you ideas for a game?
Answer: Well can't you do /this/ kind of game instead?
The answer is, if I wanted to do another kind of game I would have started to work towards it.
Anyway, the only reason I suggested this thread in the first place was out of a genuine interest in learning to create games better and not to be exhibitionist and speak 'hot air'. Therefore I'm sorry if this irritates you as that is what is implied by the terse nature of your response. |
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Andrew |
Message #84793, posted by andreww at 17:25, 15/11/2000, in reply to message #84792 |
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Well at least 4 current 2D games for cutting-edge consoles can't be bad!
Anyway, all the games discussed here give the illusion of 3D (in order of greatness; first two on level terms):
EMD: as stated on website, Owain has developed a pseudo 3D engine which will give impression of depth and anyway has anybody seen the fantastic screenshot?
TEK: gives a 3D style projection of the gaming area
my effort: the projection is offset from the vertical as I mentioned and the objects are being created in 3D editors to help this along.
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Nick Wright |
Message #84794, posted by nick2 at 19:46, 15/11/2000, in reply to message #84793 |
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To be painfully honest we need as many games for this platform as we can get! We all know this, so I'm backing Andrew all the way. 2D games are frequently the most playable games anyway. Navigation in a 3D environment is all-too-often overly complicated and can get in the way of playability. From a gameplay perspective, 2D games hit the spot.
[Edited by 19 at 13:19, 16/11/2000] |
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Nathan |
Message #84795, posted by Wrath at 09:06, 17/11/2000, in reply to message #84794 |
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I've been looking at these threads and to be honest I am /really/ sick of this "It has to be 3D I'm afraid." On the RISC OS market do /you/ really think we can afford to be picky. If this was PC land then maybe you are right, anything has to be 3D but on RISC OS!?
If someone gives us a fully working, complete 3D engine then we will action your request but up until that point you'll have to put up with the constant crap 2D games that are coming out, oh, yeah I forgot, there aren't many games being developed are there, Doh!.If I was a standard RISC OS games buyer I would be pretty scared at the way people say 3D only since there are not many games writers left:
VOTI
Artex?
Paradise?
Shoot yourself in the foot me thinks. |
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Nathan |
Message #84796, posted by Wrath at 09:11, 17/11/2000, in reply to message #84795 |
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Also as regards Andrew's request, why do people always say, "Don't do that, do this type of game?"
Most developers will only go along with the theme they originally suggested and any complete change will act as a kick in the teeth.
Why can't people come up with helpful things to say like, "Andrew, it would be great if you could add [this feature that won't require a complete re-write.]"Sorry, I am rather irrate at the unhelpfulness that Andrew is appearing to have, and to be honest I have faced the same sort of unhelpfulness myself in the past. No wonder coders and groups end up keeping themselves to themselves with this wonderful community they call RISC OS Gaming. |
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Charles Taylor |
Message #84797, posted by Nerik at 15:20, 17/11/2000, in reply to message #84796 |
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Well, to return to Andrews original question: I've looked at the website - it alreadly looks good  Features I'd like to see (if feasable) Lots of different bits of equipment (weapons, useful gizmos, etc.) to pick up, aquire as mission awards, buy, etc. Some missions where the main character (ie. the player) can gain allies/sidekicks - these follow you around and help out, but are AI driven. Multi-player team option (low priority) Character graphics vary depending upon equipment carried (low priority) Lots of 'cool' visual effects 
ie. explosions, energy fields, etc. perhaps illuminating the terrain (if feasable) Thats all, for now. |
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Charles Taylor |
Message #84798, posted by Nerik at 15:26, 17/11/2000, in reply to message #84797 |
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Umm... 2D? Sorry, but to turn heads you need 3D these days. Err.. what do define as 3D - there are many different sorts... Is DOOM 3d? (actually, no it isn't  )
Is Quake etc. (yes)
Is C&C 2 (yes, but its isometric)
Is Diablo (again yes, again isometric)
Is HOMM III (no, but they designed the creatures using a 3D gfx package) Compex, 3D, 1st-person, with fancy lighting effects are hard to do (need lots of processing) Isometric 3D, OTOH, is a lot easier (but AFAIK a lot of recent PC isometric game insist in doing it the hard way, using 3D polygons and even voxels). Anyway, to turn heads, you don't necessarly need 3D - you need eye-catching graphics. Anyway, that's my 3p. |
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Mark Quint |
Message #84799, posted by ToiletDuck at 18:08, 17/11/2000, in reply to message #84798 |
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*pulls out latest Edge*Capcom Vs SNK (Dreamcast)
Fantavision (Playstation 2)
Gradius III & IV (Playstation 2)
Slipheed: The Lost Planet (Playstation 2) Are all 2D games. Yeah but face it, thats about all that the PS2 gonna be able to handle, anymore and ur Out-of-fashion 70s VCRs gonna melt
who needs Playstations when u got Risc OS (yay lammings) and the wonders of Hlaf-Life (p.s i've got nothing against the DreamCast -it, and the N64 both use ARM chips 4 their sound ) |
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Andrew |
Message #84800, posted by andreww at 23:43, 17/11/2000, in reply to message #84799 |
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Thanks Charles - that's ideal. I'll save this as text.
Yes, I intend to include plenty of objects. The last of these will be different weapons however as you've said this will require different graphics. It is quite a slow process to design animation on RISC OS hardware at the moment (although TopModel is being developed with better animation inmind)
I hadn't thought of the allies idea for the non-player characters. I was hoping to add some limited AI for enemy pursuit. I guess allies would require more but would be worth it. At the moment there are three simple non-player character patterns of movement.
Multi-player would be a long-term goal probably after release when we have built up an expertise in this area.
I think visual effects is one of the major aspects of a game of this type and ideas here are especially useful. I've got explosions already. Energy fields would be great!
Illuminating the terrain - another good idea! This would be difficult for me at the moment but I'd like to look into it. It would definitely require assembler.
Anyway as I said ideas for visual effects and objects are most welcome.
Thanks for taking the trouble.Andrew |
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Mark Quint |
Message #84801, posted by ToiletDuck at 11:38, 19/11/2000, in reply to message #84800 |
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hi, im just about to check the website, but is ur game gonna be Real-Time ( ) or Turn Based (  )??? |
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Andrew |
Message #84802, posted by andreww at 13:19, 19/11/2000, in reply to message #84801 |
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It's not a multiplayer or strategy-type but an exploration game. Hope you like the website it's currently under development, hence the lack of screenshots that were present before. |
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Mark Quint |
Message #84803, posted by ToiletDuck at 13:33, 19/11/2000, in reply to message #84802 |
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hmmm sounds interesting,
what kind of game is it like then though???p.s. if u r looking for any help with graphics/music for ur game im happy to help if u need it. |
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Andrew |
Message #84804, posted by andreww at 17:41, 19/11/2000, in reply to message #84803 |
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Please read my earlier posts in this thread. I'll send you a couple of screenshots as well.
I'm sure help with graphics would be useful. They need to be 3d objects viewed from about say 15degrees from the vertical axis from above. Please also contact Nathan from VOTI if you'd like to help with graphics for this or any other project.
thanksAndrew |
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Nathan |
Message #84805, posted by Wrath at 11:02, 20/11/2000, in reply to message #84804 |
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In fact that goes to anyone who is handy with music, graphics or code or anything else. BTW, Andrew, should we use 20deg from vertical axis like EMD and set a standard? ;-) |
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Andrew |
Message #84806, posted by andreww at 13:27, 20/11/2000, in reply to message #84805 |
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Why not? It allows for a top-down view of the game and at the same time allows more detail to be seen fo the objects. Need to think of a acronym (is this the right word?) for it... |
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Mark Quint |
Message #84807, posted by ToiletDuck at 16:30, 20/11/2000, in reply to message #84806 |
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hi, i would be happy to help make some music/graphics for your "game in development".
I've got an email from andrew explaining a little more about the game, but if you could mail me with more information for what you would require as far as graphics and music.
Most of my graphics experience has been in webpage design (for an example goto http://www.kmaclan.ic24.net -which is a website for a Team Fortress 1.5 clan whihc i play in), and I have also began making a MOD for Half-Life (although i cannot code ). I have delved into 3-dimensional applications such as WorldCraft and Truespace 3D.
With music I compose a variety of styles of music, for which I use the Sound Blaster Live! Platinum card, and many Soundfonts, with the help of MIDI instruments and live instruments too.For the game i feel i would be able to help make the 3D graphics for it, and also some music (probably in mp3 format).
Please feel free to e-mail with anymore details, Mark Quint (StrongARM Risc PC With RiscOS 3.7 & Athlon 700Mhz With Win98SE) |
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Andrew |
Message #84808, posted by andreww at 23:24, 20/11/2000, in reply to message #84807 |
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Okay Mark I'll try to be more specific regarding graphics.
One point though: I've considered music in Midi format but I don't think many people have midi capabilities for RISC OS machines.
My preferred format would be the (albeit dated for RISC OS) tracker format. I'm hoping to acquire Digital Symphony at some point as some great results can be obtained with this even now.
I haven't investigated the possibility of MP3 music. I know this would allow for a much greater and sophisticated range of musical input but I don't know about the processor overheads associated with running MP3 tracks alongside a processor-intensive game. |
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Jeffrey Lee |
Message #84809, posted by Phlamethrower at 17:47, 21/11/2000, in reply to message #84808 |
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If someone could find the specs for the tracker format I woudn't mind trying to cobble a new player together. I was thinking of things like random noise and pitch shifts, to make it a bit more realistic, without the overhead of MP3 sizes (Everyone I've seen is about 1 meg a minute). Of course it probably won't sound any different, double the processing time needed, and make me realise what a stupid idea it was in the first place. Also I've been meaning to do a 3D sound module, so I could stick that code in as well. |
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Mark Quint |
Message #84810, posted by ToiletDuck at 21:41, 21/11/2000, in reply to message #84809 |
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What Nathan suggested is that (if the game is finally going to be distributed) the music would be unencoded from mp3 into something like .wav or it could even be played from CD.
As far as MIDI music or Digital Symphony is concerned, very few RiscOS users would have MIDI capabilities, and i feel for this type of game, music in this format wouldnt do justice to the game. The symphony format may be a possibility, but the quality is very poor and is really only good listening to it using the RiscPCs internal speaker, so i woudl suggest we used CD Audio for the music.
This would be because of the heavy processing requirements of MP3s, which are only playable on StrongARM proccessors for RiscOS. I would still suggest that we used mp3s for distributing music around between us, as it is VERY small (the song i just composed in mp3 is 1.23megs, in WAV it is over 18megs). At the end of the project, of you did want to use the larger files (which would be better quality) then it would probably be easier if i burn the tracks onto a cd and posted them to you.
[Edited by 22 at 21:45, 21/11/2000] |
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Andrew |
Message #84811, posted by andreww at 23:28, 21/11/2000, in reply to message #84810 |
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I'll email you about this Mark but I tend to prefer Tracker style tunes as I like to be able to play the tunes in the context of the gameplay to see how they fit and how they influence the atmosphere. I'm not sure if this is the way foward but tracker tunes appear to be very current given the websites dedicated to them on the PC platform.
MP3s utilise compression and so are relatively small compared to the waveform output you mention but they are still huge compared to a tracker tune I feel.
Also I want to tie the music closely to the game and I think this is far easier with tracker. For example, compare Ankh and Exodus. Both have (in my opinion) great music but Exodus succeeds in creating the atmosphere. It uses segments of a single large Digital Symphony file. |
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Nathan |
Message #84812, posted by Wrath at 23:38, 21/11/2000, in reply to message #84811 |
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For EMD I think the best solution would be to do like id did with Quake[2] and burn the tracks on as musical tracks, this frees the cpu and there would be no problems in players and licensing. |
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Mark Quint |
Message #84813, posted by ToiletDuck at 08:00, 22/11/2000, in reply to message #84812 |
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and quake too |
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Alex Macfarlane Smith |
Message #84814, posted by aardvark at 13:18, 22/11/2000, in reply to message #84813 |
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Also I want to tie the music closely to the game and I think this is far easier with tracker. For example, compare Ankh and Exodus. Both have (in my opinion) great music but Exodus succeeds in creating the atmosphere. It uses segments of a single large Digital Symphony file. Depending whether speed is an issue, I would recommend using QTM rather than Symphony since it is a lot faster at playing. Alex. |
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