The Icon Bar: News and features: RISCOS Ltd. Second Annual Report
Posted by Richard Goodwin on 19:42, 12/7/2001
| RISC OS, Graphics
Just about to go home for the evening and this pops into my mailbox, so I'll just post the URL and let y'all make your own minds up. http://www.riscos.com/news/news_items/AnnualReport2001.pdf It's in PDF format, so if you need a PDF viewer go here.
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RISCOS Ltd. Second Annual Report |
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Richard Chiswell |
Message #88902, posted at 09:30, 18/7/2001, in reply to message #88901 |
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I still have a subscription to Archive (with around 10months left), but my subscription to Acorn User expired several months ago, Tau Press have been 'bombarding' me with the same offer (either include a free magazine or at least a gift/discount for rejoining) but the reason I let my subscription to AU 'slip' was because quality was going down but cost was going up. I would like to buy a copy at WH Smiths to see what it's currently like, but I haven't been able to find a copy.
IMHO, the entire RISC OS market needs to pull itself up by the bootstraps and get a direction/roadmap (along with ditching 'Acorn' references...)
My thoughts: Center everything (new hardware, new OS version etc) around 1 key event (such as Cerillca's launch - but I believe that passed us by with hardly a splash in the water) and offer 'packages' in the mainstream magazines etc (Buy a StrongARM high-powered RISC OS 4.5 machine running the latest blah...blah..blah.. with all this free software.... and get a years free subscription to... contact [insert single UK telephone number here - preferably local rate or freefone] for an information pack or financing options).
If only somebody would give the market ideas/aims... |
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Peter Price |
Message #88903, posted at 19:05, 18/7/2001, in reply to message #88902 |
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An excellent suggestion Richard, and an ideal that many *users* would be more than happy with.
Unfortunately it's never, ever going to happen in the market's present state. Why? Well your idea would require the formation of a central promotion/sales organisation to sell RISC OS to the mainstream. What you have overlooked is that this organisation *already exists*! RISCOS Ltd. is a private limited company and is jointly owned by just about everyone in the market who is willing to invest money by buying its shares.
It is RISCOS Ltd. who should be setting up free telephone sales lines, taking out national print advertising, organising national shows and exhibitions, dealing with press enquiries and generally overseeing the growth of this market.
Why, why, why, why, why is RISCOS Ltd. not following the first basic rule of business? - the necessity of growth.
Without it, RISCOS Ltd. could return a loss indefinitely. The directors may not be willing to take risks and its stakeholders may never see a return on their investment. The company may fail within the next few years.
I am fully aware that I didn't put my money where my mouth is because I didn't invest in RISCOS Ltd. when given the chance. However, as an observer of the market it is clear to me that we are witnessing a major problem of a joint organisation with a goal similar to that outlined by Richard in the previous post. By creating a company with so many small shareholders, each ultimately with the same long term objective of growth, there are so many different views and possible methods though which the objectives could be reached that no one clear strategy is ever chosen.
As mentioned earlier, the bickering and arguments which take place on TIB, Drobe and Usenet etc. offer a small insight into the infinite number of strategies for our collective long term market objective: GROWTH.
Come on RISCOS Ltd. - SORT OUT YOUR STRATEGY! |
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Ben Brook |
Message #88904, posted at 23:14, 18/7/2001, in reply to message #88903 |
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Just to add to Richard'd ideas and something that has been going through my mind lately. The major companies in the RISC OS market (including RISCOS Ltd. itself) should exhibit at mainstream exhibitons (such as BETT) as a collective under one name. By doing this, larger exhibtion space will become affordable for those companies that have had to make do with a shell scheme structure in the past (as hard as some of them try to 'tart' them up up a bit). This collective would enable a wider reaching and much bolder statement that yes, RISC OS is still being supported and improved and yes it is more than adequate to satisfy the needs of schools, small businesses, etc. Of course what this does require is the full co-operation of the major companies to get off the ground but believe me it has been done many times before in other industries, often with a high success rate. It is a step to take that I believe will help RISC OS get back into the mainstream and shrug off any doubts about its capability and 'health'. |
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Guy Inchbald |
Message #88905, posted at 12:24, 19/7/2001, in reply to message #88904 |
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Great ideas lads, but I would guess that there is one major snag. ROL has IIRC 6 or 7 full-time employees, sits in a couple of corners provided by bigger fish, and probably can't afford new teabags. All that heavy marketing is horribly expensive. Lay out £20k on a show, discount what you would have been doing otherwise, and you will have to sell an extra 400 or so copies to break even. Three shows an ad campaign and free sales line will cost at least 100k, say 2,000 copies - that's a huge 50% increase on the current marketplace, maybe 100% on current sales.
My guess is, ROL stopped doing all that stuff because it doesn't bring in anything like that much.
ROL are so powerless because the market is so small.
And the market is so small because ...
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Nathan |
Message #88906, posted at 12:41, 19/7/2001, in reply to message #88905 |
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I take on board the cost issue but I haven't gained contacts by paying them. Favours do work but where is the evidence that ROL have actually tried? There isn't any, they didn't even appear at Wakefield. Their customer service sucks, they have no roadmap, no future, these things can be done for free even having a review or something to a magazine is free.
I don't defend ROL because I can't defend anything they do. I am 100% disgusted and the only comments you get from shareholders are:
"You obviously haven't had a business."
"You have no concept of the real world."
"Get a life."
I would say, "Get off your a**e". |
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mark quint |
Message #88907, posted at 13:57, 19/7/2001, in reply to message #88906 |
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hrmmm a fair point
I see another Article coming soon ;) |
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Ben Brook |
Message #88908, posted at 14:21, 19/7/2001, in reply to message #88907 |
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Money should not be as difficult an obstacle as it seems. The load would be shared equally by all participating companies so the more there are that sign up to it the less they have to pay. Maybe it's time any differences are settled between the major companies and RISCOS Ltd. beacause if they don't I fear that it will be the mistake that could stop the market from ever pushing forward on to bigger and better things. |
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Michael Stubbs |
Message #88909, posted at 17:49, 19/7/2001, in reply to message #88908 |
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The problem with that is that Castle might sell more than RiscStation, so RiscStation will want to pay less, for example. Castle would not be happy subsidising RiscStation and vice versa. It just can't work.
The point is ROL will be selling RISC OS, so they should be paying for it. That is what they are there for. Paul Middleton has forgotten this. He was the one who buggered everything up by seperating the OS from the hardware, now he should ensure the manufacturers get the OS they need - 32bit. |
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Peter Price |
Message #88910, posted at 19:16, 19/7/2001, in reply to message #88909 |
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Perhaps we could give RISCOS Ltd. a helping hand by sending them some Business Studies and Marketing textbooks?
As someone who has just done an A-level in business, I've been taught that RISCOS Ltd. should be striving to grow (see my post above) and secondly *taking risks*.
People above have pointed out that exhibitions, advertising and phone lines cost money and increase the break even point. This is true BUT (to quote the saying bounding around just about every business school in the UK) the bigger the risk, the bigger the potential return.
Dell didn't become the World's largest PC retailer without borrowing money, investing in technology, investing in customer support and marketing like crazy...
Nathan said: "Favours do work but where is the evidence that ROL have actually tried? There isn't any, they didn't even appear at Wakefield."
Why was/is RISC OS 4 only advertised in Acorn User? Why have they not asked Drobe/TIB/Cybervillage for advertising space? Why did they not send news websites review copies? Why are RISCOS Ltd. not turning up to shows? If RISCOS Ltd. are reading this - I would like to know!
Peter. |
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Ben Brook |
Message #88911, posted at 19:40, 19/7/2001, in reply to message #88910 |
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In reply to Michael, wanting to pay more or less for exhibition space will never come into the equation. All participants will pay a set and equal rate and will receive the same equal area of exhibition space as the next participant. Because monies will be collected prior to the show (as it will be used for all exhibtion stand related costs from the stand space to the furniture that will be hired for it) there can be no disagreement over how many computer one company sold compared to another. Another factor is that computer sales should be held after the exhibtion. As far as I know most companies operate like this as to have a storeroom full of computers after paying for precious stand space seems a total waste. As much of the stand should be used for showing off as possible. Also, a joint on-stand hospitality area should be provided (maybe even a sort of Internet cafe type affair).
If RISCOS Ltd. want to show themselves off on their own fine but perhaps a few exhibtions should be where a collective presence is held just to begin with then later they can go their separate ways in terms of having their own stands.
Oh, and if any of these major companies are reading this, preparation for BETT (which I believe is in the first week of the next year) should begin in August/September so you have plenty of time to get your act together now :-)
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Steve knutson |
Message #88912, posted at 21:24, 19/7/2001, in reply to message #88911 |
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Great discussion, I really hope the people that count are taking this as a helpful suggestion!
Advertising doesn't need to cost huge amounts either, where are the RISCOS T-Shirts, bummer stickers, letters to the editors of mainstream computing mags, demos at senior citizens clubs (geneology,email), incentives to "bring a mate or neighbour" to the next RISCOS show, nice websites, animated e-cards, press conferences, turning up to events etc etc. Lets get creative.
Don't get me wrong, you still <cry out loud>MUST ADVERTISE OUTSIDE ACORN FRIENDLY MEDIA</cry out loud>.
Surely this is for the collective good. If a copy of RISCOS4 sells, then down the track EasiWriter or Vantage or Oregano etc may be purchased. |
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Paul Biggs |
Message #88913, posted at 22:31, 19/7/2001, in reply to message #88912 |
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On the subject of sending Business/Marketing texts to Risc OS Ltd (and other companies in the market)
try
Rejuvenating the Mature Business
Charles Baden-Fuller
(available from Amazon)
It's the company that is important not the market that it operates in.
Cheers
Paul BA(Hons) Dip.M ACIM
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Max Palmer |
Message #88914, posted at 07:47, 20/7/2001, in reply to message #88913 |
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On the subject of shows and trying to gain wider publicity. There appears to be something on Microdigital's web site about 'RUM' which looks like the right kind of gesture. |
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Guy Inchbald |
Message #88915, posted at 09:56, 20/7/2001, in reply to message #88914 |
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I was trying to give ROL the benefit of the doubt, until my Acorn User arrived yesterday. I had to re-read it to make sure I wasn't dreaming. It quotes "Mr RiscOS on the Desktop" himself, Paul Middleton, as saying publicly that there is no future in the RiscOS Desktop. Just a little support for current users, and then ...
It seems pointless to remind him that the whole purpose of ROL is to develop and sell ROD, and he is supposed to be running it.
Whether he has any tricks up his sleeve is immaterial (though I doubt he has), he's told us all publicly that his company is dead in the water.
Well, on the basis of that report I now have some solid advice for the ROL shareholders:
He has lost market credibility, he'll ruin your business. (remember Gerald Ratner?)
Sack him.
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Gerph |
Message #88916, posted at 10:30, 20/7/2001, in reply to message #88915 |
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Guy: Out of interest, who reported that Paul had said that ?
Second thought is that, based on an article in AU; you're recommending sacking someone. Next you'll be suggesting that everything in there is authoritive.
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Chris Williams |
Message #88917, posted at 12:01, 20/7/2001, in reply to message #88916 |
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re: Paul M's reported comment in AU
To say I'm a little shocked is a an understatement. What issue of AU is this in?
Chris |
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The Doctor |
Message #88918, posted at 12:05, 20/7/2001, in reply to message #88917 |
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I was wondering when someone would mention that article.
For me, that was pretty much the final nail in the coffin.
Here we have a number of Hardware and Software companies all working their socks off to try and bring new products to the market and generally striving to keep the market alive, and then along comes ROL to shove it's great flat foot in it.
They clearly have no idea of marketing, advertising or selling and are without doubt causing damage to the remains of the market.
If their IS no desktop market left, then ROL have certainly done sod all to help in recent months.
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Nathan |
Message #88919, posted at 12:46, 20/7/2001, in reply to message #88918 |
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If he did make that comment then he should get the hell out of our market and hand over ROL to someone who is competent enough (which wouldn't be hard).
I always wondered what he really felt of the market and it always seemed that he was just in it to get a quick buck, whether he did or not is immaterial.
Paul: If you did make that comment then GO! |
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Guy Inchbald |
Message #88920, posted at 13:33, 20/7/2001, in reply to message #88919 |
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The comment was reported in a writeup of his presentation at a recent RiscOS show. The report is in the Latest issue of AU, which I found on the doormat when I got home last night. I can't give more detail today, as I left it at home. Maybe someone else can oblige? |
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Chris Williams |
Message #88921, posted at 13:57, 20/7/2001, in reply to message #88920 |
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Ok, my copy should be on its way. All these rumors and quotes and promises and problems and set backs are everso slowly driving me insane.
Chris |
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Mikey |
Message #88922, posted at 18:18, 20/7/2001, in reply to message #88921 |
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How many more messages are we going to see here? The Acorn platform is f*cked, so don't waste any more tme on it. It's obvious Paul Middleton was in it to make a fast buck. The one person who could have made some difference, David Holden, has been voted out of RISC OS LTD - smart move!
Linux is well supported, virtually free and is having a hard time pushing out Micro, so what chance does this platform have? Get real guys and go with the mainstream.
The Acorn scene was nice in its heyday, now it's time to move on.
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Chris Williams |
Message #88923, posted at 18:34, 20/7/2001, in reply to message #88922 |
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For some perverse reason, Mikey, your initial comments made me giggle. Ah well what a mess but what can you do? I've waited for what 3 years to see a turnaround and I'm not going to stop just cos the guy at the top (alledgedly) made a throw away comment. I'll wait for my copy of AU before making up my mind.
Chris "keep on smiling cos no one wants to see a grown man cry" ;) |
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Nathan |
Message #88924, posted at 19:02, 20/7/2001, in reply to message #88923 |
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I don't think of it as a "throwaway comment". If this is what is said then that is what he means. Can we get shot of him after this comment then? |
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Andrew Weston |
Message #88925, posted at 19:13, 20/7/2001, in reply to message #88924 |
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Two comments which may be significant here:
1. I don't know who wrote the article but it is presented as an impression of what RISC OS Ltd said.
2. It also said that the Omega does NOT depend upon a 32-bit OS being developed and they are proceeding towards a release.
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Al Cleminson |
Message #88926, posted at 20:27, 20/7/2001, in reply to message #88925 |
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From this 'dumb' user's point of view
1. linux is a complex. picky and fragile OS - it's far too easy for the uninitiated, me, to break it. I know it's powerful, but i don't have 18 months of spare time to learn its many and varied nooks. RISC OS, for my purposes is fast, and much more freindly than Windows or Linux's arcane dimensions, it also continues to be more productive.
2. AFAIAA Microdigital have always stated that, even without the 32bit RISC OS 3bit apps would run on the Omega.
3. ROL need to review the resons they were formed, and if they don't believe they can continue to support, progress and promote the RISC OS desktop they should consider their present position. In anycase at the moment they're making a royal arse of things.
Unless they have something up their sleeve - unlikely |
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Guy |
Message #88927, posted at 20:36, 20/7/2001, in reply to message #88926 |
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Ah, here we are. AU Aug 2001 page 44.
Paul Middleton "suggested that there was no destopk market left.
Surely that is what RiscOs Ltd was formed to do?"
after saying that Pace STB's are the way forward for RiscOS.
AU then point out the odness of his saying this immediately after the very upbeat Microdigital presentation.
IMHO ROD may well have a future, but not if Mr Middletonisleft in charge. Sorrry, Paul.
BTW posted this from my Psion 5. Apologies for typo's. |
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Guy |
Message #88928, posted at 20:42, 20/7/2001, in reply to message #88927 |
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This thread has now moved to the General forum.
See you there. |
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Doug |
Message #88929, posted at 21:40, 20/7/2001, in reply to message #88928 |
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The comment that is attributed to Paul Middleton is not that different from similar things he has supposed to have stated before.
I was at one show where he said that in the future we would have machines in the home that would run on RISC OS but that it would not be evident to us as such.
This can be taken to mean either the death of RISC OS or the expansion via stealth of the operating system we know and love. Nothing stands still and I have used Acorn machines since 1983 and wish to carry on using them but faced with a RISC Os base of 4000+ or 1,000,000 plus in varying types of machines then I think the latter will provide a way of sustaining our operating system. Oregano is one example of this in that the main code is for a STB/Internet TV yet Castle pays for the RISC OS add ons.
Before anyone stays I'm negative, I purchased RISC OS 4 as soon as it was available and a Kinetic soon after, along with numereous other packages over the past two years. I look forward to buying a complete new machine asap but I recognise that RISC OS needs to develop and that something that does not do so withers and dies. I don't want that to happen to RISC OS but I sometimes feel, as a usually silent observer of the market, that there are afew to many vocal doomsayers on the news groups who if we are not careful will talk this market into it's grave. |
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rpozz |
Message #88930, posted at 10:58, 23/7/2001, in reply to message #88929 |
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If Paul was stupid enough to make a comment like that, then no wonder ROL aren't getting anywhere. I heard someone (he may know who he is) mention to me that Pace have a 32-bit RISC OS running on the desktop, minus various bits+pieces, obviously.
If this is the case, then it's plain that ROL are failing to negotiate with Pace properly, and we could never see a 32-bit RISC OS on our desktops. My Risc PC /still/ outperforms a modern PC on some areas of the desktop, and the RISC OS user interface is better than any other I've used.
RISC OS /can/ have a future - it still has advantages over other OSs, but it must run on modern hardware, because 233mhz is /way/ out of date, at the very least from an image perspective. |
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Lee Johnston |
Message #88931, posted at 12:38, 23/7/2001, in reply to message #88930 |
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Several people from Pace have commented on the newsgroups that they have a 32bit RISC OS running.
As for needing more performance from an image perspective...well it'd also be nice for making MP3 usages a real practicality (games anyone? Too processor intensive right now) and for making stuff like a OpenGL (Mesa) run reasonably well - useful if we want to keep up with the latest developments concerning Flash 3D (or whatever it's called).
I agree that RISC OS still rocks in the desktop - it's surprisingly quick on my RiscStation.
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The Icon Bar: News and features: RISCOS Ltd. Second Annual Report |
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