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RISC OS... |
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Gavin Smith |
Message #44065, posted by SparkY at 15:11, 4/7/2003 |
 Danger! Danger! High Voltage!
Posts: 697
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is ours! All ours! Hurrah!!!!!! |
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Andrew Duffell |
Message #44067, posted by ad at 16:38, 4/7/2003, in reply to message #44065 |
Posts: 3262
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is ours! All ours! Hurrah!!!!!! Actually, it is castles  |
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Kevin Wells |
Message #44068, posted by Revin Kevin at 19:20, 4/7/2003, in reply to message #44067 |
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Should make the S.E Show interesting.
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I did not do it. |
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Andrew Ellis |
Message #44086, posted by Andrew Ellis at 18:04, 5/7/2003, in reply to message #44068 |
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Posts: 43
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Will ROS5 run a SA RPC??
If yes maybe castle should buy select and make it run under ROS 5.
If no maybe the should make select run on ROS 5 anyway. ROS 5 must feel a bit basic to someone who's used to select.
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Mark Scholes |
Message #44087, posted by mavhc at 18:36, 5/7/2003, in reply to message #44086 |
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Posts: 660
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Will ROS5 run a SA RPC??
If yes maybe castle should buy select and make it run under ROS 5.
If no maybe the should make select run on ROS 5 anyway. ROS 5 must feel a bit basic to someone who's used to select. Why would you want to buy an OS that doesn't run 26bit programs and isn't any better than ROS4 really?
Castle and ROL working together seems more likely now than before. But it's a lot of work to combine the 2 OSes, so don't expect anything overnight. |
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JMB |
Message #44088, posted by jmb at 20:03, 5/7/2003, in reply to message #44087 |
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Why would you want to buy an OS that doesn't run 26bit programs for a very simple reason: 26bit capable ARM chips are no longer being made (please, noone mention 7500FE)  |
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Mark Scholes |
Message #44089, posted by mavhc at 21:21, 5/7/2003, in reply to message #44088 |
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Why would you want to buy an OS that doesn't run 26bit programs for a very simple reason: 26bit capable ARM chips are no longer being made (please, noone mention 7500FE)
Obviously we were talking about in a RiscPC |
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Andrew Ellis |
Message #44090, posted by Andrew Ellis at 21:47, 5/7/2003, in reply to message #44087 |
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Why would you want to buy an OS that doesn't run 26bit programs and isn't any better than ROS4 really?
Well I can't afford an Iyonix or an Omega at the moment (I bought an iBook last year with OS X. Shame on me!). I would like to be able to keep as up to date as possible with ROS. One day I will buy an Omega or Iyonix, when I can afford it. But I don't think I'll ever part with me RPC, I just couldn't do it! Does anyone else feel the same, or is it just me being too sentimental!?
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Mark Scholes |
Message #44091, posted by mavhc at 22:46, 5/7/2003, in reply to message #44090 |
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Why would you want to buy an OS that doesn't run 26bit programs and isn't any better than ROS4 really?
Well I can't afford an Iyonix or an Omega at the moment (I bought an iBook last year with OS X. Shame on me!). I would like to be able to keep as up to date as possible with ROS. One day I will buy an Omega or Iyonix, when I can afford it. But I don't think I'll ever part with me RPC, I just couldn't do it! Does anyone else feel the same, or is it just me being too sentimental!?
So buy Select, and when you get an Iyonix/Omega you can run Select on that too (hopefully (more likely for iyonix if you do subscribe now and mention the Iyonix thing))
The HAL interface has already been ported to the RiscPC, I don't see what you'd gain from running ROS5 on a RPC. |
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Andrew |
Message #44112, posted by andrew at 11:52, 7/7/2003, in reply to message #44091 |
 Handbag Boi
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Hopefully there'll be a full report on this in the next Acorn User. |
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Message #44160, posted by blahsnr at 20:27, 8/7/2003, in reply to message #44086 |
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ROS 5 must feel a bit basic to someone who's used to select. Ooo noooo! RO5 is fast and 'clean' (in the sense of have you recently tried to find out where a particular config file is in a Select boot sequence?) after Select just what the doctor ordered. Nice Iyonix icons especially the return of the blue folders!
I do understand that there is a lot of useful work done to restructure RISC OS in the Select version, and am not trying to negate the good work already done but after 2 years of subscriptions there is precious little that I from a user's perspective need. The only thing I would like under RO5 is resizable desktop fonts, and even that is not essential.
After all for me Select appeared to be the the only possible path to a 32bit RISC OS, but it has turned out somewhat differently hasn't it  )
Cheers
Stan |
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Andrew |
Message #44162, posted by andrew at 21:41, 8/7/2003, in reply to message #44160 |
Handbag Boi
Posts: 3439
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Yes for all the perks, RO Select is quite messy. |
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Gavin Smith |
Message #44163, posted by SparkY at 22:08, 8/7/2003, in reply to message #44162 |
Danger! Danger! High Voltage!
Posts: 697
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I'm glad someone else has said it, I thought it was just me. I'm of the opinion that RISC OS 4 (and therefore, probably 5 too) is very clean, simple, neat and nippy. Don't get me wrong, I have used Select and I'm amazed at the work those very talented guys put into it, but I do hope they integrate the features slowly, carefully and very neatly. I don't want RISC OS to become another bloated messy OS. |
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Simon Wilson |
Message #44164, posted by ksattic at 22:12, 8/7/2003, in reply to message #44160 |
 Finally, an avatar!
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The only thing I would like under RO5 is resizable desktop fonts, and even that is not essential. I thought it was already possible without Select by setting some variable. Er... sorry I can't be of more help! |
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Chris Williams |
Message #44166, posted by diodesign at 22:53, 8/7/2003, in reply to message #44163 |
 The Opposition
Posts: 269
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Whoa, whoa, whoa. Hold on. What's given you the impression that Select is messy, untidy and bloated?
Here's some examples - Select is faster than OS 4, much faster. The internet stack is, in places, 25% faster. Taskwindows don't eat up 60%+ of CPU time when idle anymore. Every OS component strictly follows the Style Guide to ensure UI consistency across the desktop.
Everything is configurable, if you don't like something or think it may slow down the desktop, you turn it off. I don't know where this idea of Select being messy and bloated comes into it 
Chris. Speaking personally. |
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Mark Scholes |
Message #44167, posted by mavhc at 23:08, 8/7/2003, in reply to message #44166 |
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Posts: 660
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Whoa, whoa, whoa. Hold on. What's given you the impression that Select is messy, untidy and bloated?
Probably referring to the !Boot structure, all those new hardware and user profiles make tracing what's going on more difficult, much like the ROSHook and System.310 etc directories did. If you're not going to use the features to have multiple hardware/users/os versions using the boot sequence they just get in the way. Happened to me the first time I installed it, turned out the CD ROM drive was dodgy and not all the files were copied over.
Now we have >77 files/dir we could get rid of System.310,350,360 and 370.
Wimp$FontSize and Wimp$FontWidth appear to control the desktop font size. |
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Chris Williams |
Message #44171, posted by diodesign at 23:25, 8/7/2003, in reply to message #44167 |
The Opposition
Posts: 269
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Oh for the love of God. Everything's tucked away in !Boot so you don't have to worry about it. It's all finely tuned and structured in there, if you start pissing about in there then expect stuff to break. There's defined interfaces in !Configure to allow the control of what goes on during boot up. And you know what? If something does happen to go wrong, I can do *syslog boot show (or use the !Configure syslog plugin) to see what happened and what was executed at boot time.
Chris. |
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David Marston |
Message #44172, posted by illudium at 23:28, 8/7/2003, in reply to message #44167 |
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Whoa, whoa, whoa. Hold on. What's given you the impression that Select is messy, untidy and bloated?
Probably referring to the !Boot structure, all those new hardware and user profiles make tracing what's going on more difficult, much like the ROSHook and System.310 etc directories did. If you're not going to use the features to have multiple hardware/users/os versions using the boot sequence they just get in the way. Happened to me the first time I installed it, turned out the CD ROM drive was dodgy and not all the files were copied over.
Those new features are there for a reason though. They do add more complexity to the boot sequence, but since nobody should really be changing anything in there by hand anyway it shouldn't matter. The only places I can think I've added things would be Resources (in the same place), PreDesk (easy to find) and Library (which is better organised in Select)
I don't think I've ever felt the need to try tracing the boot sequence anyway, but the boot logging in Select should make that less necessary.
Now we have >77 files/dir we could get rid of System.310,350,360 and 370.
I don't really see how the two things are related to be honest. |
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Gavin Smith |
Message #44173, posted by SparkY at 23:54, 8/7/2003, in reply to message #44166 |
Danger! Danger! High Voltage!
Posts: 697
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you turn it off. I don't know where this idea of Select being messy and bloated comes into it
I don't think Select is particularly bloated yet, I was referring to the integration of RISC OS 5 and Select. By messy, I was indeed referring to the Boot structure but also certain windows, especially in !Configure in the versions of Select that I have used, where the Style Guide (and common sense) seemed to be forgotten about, in the attempt to cram lots of options and features in. This may have been cleaned up a bit in the latest version, I haven't played with it, so can't comment. Perhaps this *is* the nature of Select though, as a fast evolving OS - however, I just want the features to be added to RISC OS 5 carefully and slowly, so that it retains a polished feel.
Hope I explained myself better this time - I didn't mean any offence to the Select developers  |
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fwibbler |
Message #44175, posted by fwibbler at 08:59, 9/7/2003, in reply to message #44173 |
Posts: 320
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If you haven't tried the latest version of Select, then you really shouldn't comment on it.
I was not impressed with the first version and uninstalled it, went back to RO4.
I didn't install the second version as I didn't see the point, so I can't comment on that.
The latest 3rd version however had features I really wanted and screamed out to me to install it.
You really should try it.
Whenever I go use my sisters machine or my fathers, I find the lack of Select features quite annoying after only a short time.
I sort of agree with the comments about !Boot.Choices. I can't see the attraction in this multiple user thingy. Nobody else uses my machine, /Nobody/!
It's a small price to pay though.
Cheers!
[Edited by thedoctor at 08:59, 9/7/2003] |
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John D |
Message #44177, posted by john at 09:34, 9/7/2003, in reply to message #44175 |
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Posts: 261
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I did write an alternative !Boot a while ago, before Select, and it was much nicer, but once select came out I didn't have time to keep it up to date any more. Some of the features have appeared in Select, but the overall simplicity of it hasn't. If there was interest in helping, I could have put it in sourceforge or something. I also started a replacement Obey module, with configurable error handling etc. |
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Andrew |
Message #44180, posted by andrew at 12:05, 9/7/2003, in reply to message #44166 |
Handbag Boi
Posts: 3439
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Whoa, whoa, whoa. Hold on. What's given you the impression that Select is messy, untidy and bloated?
Here's some examples - Select is faster than OS 4, much faster. The internet stack is, in places, 25% faster. Taskwindows don't eat up 60%+ of CPU time when idle anymore. Every OS component strictly follows the Style Guide to ensure UI consistency across the desktop.
Everything is configurable, if you don't like something or think it may slow down the desktop, you turn it off. I don't know where this idea of Select being messy and bloated comes into it
Chris. Speaking personally. I was thinking of all the banners, much more being dependent on the hard disc which yes is probably necessary (costs etc) . |
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John Hoare |
Message #44189, posted by moss at 16:45, 9/7/2003, in reply to message #44180 |
Posts: 9348
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For what it's worth, I'd find multiple users extremely useful. It's not ROL's fault that RISC OS users don't have friends |
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Garry Taylor |
Message #44190, posted by thegman at 17:02, 9/7/2003, in reply to message #44189 |
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Jeez John, that really hurts! ;-) |
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John Hoare |
Message #44191, posted by moss at 17:24, 9/7/2003, in reply to message #44190 |
Posts: 9348
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To be fair, I'd mainly find multiple users useful to make my imaginary friends seem that bit more real. |
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Simon Wilson |
Message #44194, posted by ksattic at 17:37, 9/7/2003, in reply to message #44180 |
Finally, an avatar!
Posts: 1291
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Everything is configurable, if you don't like something or think it may slow down the desktop, you turn it off. I don't know where this idea of Select being messy and bloated comes into it I was thinking of all the banners, much more being dependent on the hard disc which yes is probably necessary (costs etc) .
Is there a way to switch off or change the Select logo upon boot - the one that says "Select" on the right when "StrongARM" and the memory size is on the left? I never liked the original Select logo and it would be nice to change it. |
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Tim Firmager |
Message #44647, posted by Timothy609 at 09:22, 20/7/2003, in reply to message #44089 |
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Obviously we were talking about in a RiscPC Oh - i thought we were talking about a Microsoft PC!!! lol |
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Tim Firmager |
Message #44648, posted by Timothy609 at 09:24, 20/7/2003, in reply to message #44647 |
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Erm - does this mean i will be shunned away from the RISC OS scene because i said such a satanistic comment????? |
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I don't have tourettes you're just a cun |
Message #44836, posted by [mentat] at 13:53, 24/7/2003, in reply to message #44648 |
![[mentat]](/images/smileys/mentat.gif) Fear is the mind-killer
Posts: 6266
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Erm - does this mean i will be shunned away from the RISC OS scene because i said such a satanistic comment????? Yes. <--Sarcasm as indicated by winkey.
But I don't think I'll ever part with me RPC, I just
couldn't do it! Does anyone else feel the same, or is it just me being too
sentimental!? No, I think there's something special about  s |
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John Hoare |
Message #44850, posted by moss at 21:16, 24/7/2003, in reply to message #44836 |
Posts: 9348
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No, I think there's something special about s There is about most. They're beautiful machines; the best Acorn ever made (commercially). But I've treated mine so badly it's a complete wreck |
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