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The Icon Bar: General: RISCOS versions and features
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RISCOS versions and features |
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jon black |
Message #122262, posted by forestman at 22:56, 4/4/2013 |
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Posts: 25
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I have been reading up on the is updates as I am considering updatin from 3.70 that I have, however whilst I can find lists of os, release dates and provider, here isn't much in the way of a summary of features / changes for each. Ie what features / upgrades exist, what features or challenges.
Anyone know if a good summary exists maybe even in t bowels of this site?
From why I see I could go for
3.71 (?) (soft?) (rol?)
4.02 roms (rol)
4.39 (adjust) roms / soft (rol)
5.18 / 5.19 (rool)
6.x (rol maybe) (soft)
Cheers! |
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jon black |
Message #122263, posted by forestman at 23:15, 4/4/2013, in reply to message #122262 |
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Posts: 25
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May have solved this myself with articles on the now defunct drove site
http://www.drobe.co.uk/riscos/artifact1522,3.html |
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keith dunlop |
Message #122264, posted by epistaxsis at 23:46, 4/4/2013, in reply to message #122263 |
Posts: 159
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It really depends on what you want to use your RiscPC for.
You have already posted about games you liked so, depending on whether you have a StrongARM processor and, if necessary, patches available, stick to RISC OS 3.7
Be aware that the only version of RISC OS under active developement is RISC OS 5 which does run on A7000 / RiscPC hardware *but* as it is the modern version of the operating system some games with all their at the time cleverness wont run.
The choice is yours  |
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Jason Togneri |
Message #122266, posted by filecore at 09:09, 5/4/2013, in reply to message #122264 |
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Since RISC OS is absolutely useless for anything modern except as a nostalgia machine, I'd say stick with what works, play your old games, and save yourself from the massive headaches and !System incompatibilities that you'll get when trying to use a later version of RISC OS purely to run older programs.
I'm using a RiscPC with 4.03 and a 233MHz Kinetic StrongARM, and even then half of my games suffer from SA or RO4 incompatibilities - and although patches exist, not all games are patched, and some patches can be tricky to get hold of. RO 3.71 and an ARM710 isn't exactly power computing, but it is probably the sweet spot for the majority of RISC OS games. |
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Jon Abbott |
Message #122267, posted by sirbod at 09:59, 5/4/2013, in reply to message #122266 |
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Posts: 563
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I've been testing game compatibility for JASPP...
331 games tested on RO3.71:
240 - RISC OS 3.71 compatible
39 - RISC OS 3.71 incompatible, but fixable using ADFFS*
52 - RISC OS 3.1 only, but I'm working on it*
295 games tested for RO4:
115 - RISC OS 4 compatible
11 - RISC OS 4 incompatible, but fixable using ADFFS*
285 games tested for RO5:
14 - RISC OS 5 compatible
196 games tested on StrongARM:
101 - SA compatible
3 - SA incompatible, but will run using ADFFS
92 - ARM7500 or below only
* These games typically write directly to VIDC1 or other areas of memory not available in RO3.5 / RO3.71. ADFFS dynamically remaps these to the RPC equivalent.
The current public release contains screen memory re-mapping, the next release will have full VIDC1 > 20 translation, which is currently undergoing testing.
eg. Zarch requires screen memory remapping and Boogie Buggy requires VIDC1 translation.
[Edited by sirbod at 09:59, 5/4/2013] |
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Eric Rucker |
Message #122268, posted by bhtooefr at 10:10, 5/4/2013, in reply to message #122266 |
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And in that case, 3.71 and an ARM7500FE (not for the floating point, nothing used that, but for the extra clock speed) would be a sweeter spot.
Myself, I went another direction, now that my RiscPC needs a replacement motherboard - 3.11 and an ARM250 for games, 5.19 and a BCM2835 for everything else (because life's too short to wait on even a StrongARM). That combo covers almost everything.
Oh, and it's not just software being too clever that keeps it from running on 5.xx - it's also the fact that 5.xx, even on IOMD hardware, is 32-bit-only. |
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Rob Kendrick |
Message #122270, posted by nunfetishist at 10:38, 5/4/2013, in reply to message #122268 |
 Today's phish is trout a la creme.
Posts: 522
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And in that case, 3.71 and an ARM7500FE (not for the floating point, nothing used that, but for the extra clock speed) would be a sweeter spot Err, nothing used it? Everything that used FPE10 instructions used it. So anything written in C and build with either Norcroft or GCC that used float or double types. |
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Jon Abbott |
Message #122271, posted by sirbod at 10:47, 5/4/2013, in reply to message #122270 |
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The problem with the FPE on the ARM7500FE is that it's a partial implemention of the IEEE standard, so you still need to load the FPE emulator.
So...gives the impression of not being used.
I believe the emulator is also quicker for most instructions anyway! |
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Rob Kendrick |
Message #122272, posted by nunfetishist at 11:17, 5/4/2013, in reply to message #122271 |
Today's phish is trout a la creme.
Posts: 522
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If memory serves, the hardware implements the register file and a handful of simple operations and some trig. Everything else is handled by the emulator. |
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Rob Kendrick |
Message #122273, posted by nunfetishist at 11:30, 5/4/2013, in reply to message #122272 |
Today's phish is trout a la creme.
Posts: 522
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If memory serves, the hardware implements the register file and a handful of simple operations and some trig. Everything else is handled by the emulator. From the datasheet;
The FPA instruction repertoire includes only the basic operations plus compare, absolute value, round to integral value and floating-point to integer and integer to floating-point conversions. In addition, only normalized operands and zeros are handled in hardware; operations on denormalized numbers, infinities and NaNs are handled by the support code. Only the inexact exception is dealt with by hardware; all other exceptions cause the software support code to be called, whether or not the associated trap is enabled. This approach has helped to minimize the die size whilst having a negligible effect on performance in most applications. |
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Jason Togneri |
Message #122274, posted by filecore at 12:34, 5/4/2013, in reply to message #122273 |
Posts: 3867
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floating-point? Interesting use of the ligature form there, I guess it has infinite possibilities |
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Rob Kendrick |
Message #122275, posted by nunfetishist at 13:25, 5/4/2013, in reply to message #122274 |
Today's phish is trout a la creme.
Posts: 522
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floating-point? Interesting use of the ligature form there, I guess it has infinite possibilities Blame the PDF and my laziness. |
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Jon Abbott |
Message #122276, posted by sirbod at 14:27, 5/4/2013, in reply to message #122273 |
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I think Eric was closer with "nothing used it" !!! |
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Rob Kendrick |
Message #122277, posted by nunfetishist at 14:41, 5/4/2013, in reply to message #122276 |
Today's phish is trout a la creme.
Posts: 522
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I think Eric was closer with "nothing used it" !!! Eh? |
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jon black |
Message #122280, posted by forestman at 17:40, 5/4/2013, in reply to message #122264 |
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Posts: 25
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Interesting,
I had pretty much decided to go for 4.39 rom sets to improve os and aid Internet access, but I'm more confused again,
Yup I posted a nostalgic post regarding games as that was a decent chunk of the use of the acorn when i was a lad (that and messing around writing my own software). However also want to use for a few other grown up things.
I have an sa RISC pc so have the extra sa compatibility issues too...
Partly went for RISC pc as my first choice, a5000s were so darn expensive, a3010/3020 have integrated keyboard that would not fit my desk and partly as I never had one before... |
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jon black |
Message #122324, posted by forestman at 21:12, 27/4/2013, in reply to message #122267 |
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Posts: 25
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@Jon - Firstly - thanks for addfs - it's been very useful.
However I'm a little lost on all the uses of this software - bar my basic use of it for disk images - as it does seem to help getting software running also - would it help with any StrongARM compatibility?
Also what support you need for JASPP - is there any website for this outside of the Icon Bar forum thread that I found once before....
(However I don't have any boxes any more...barely have any disks....) |
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Jason Togneri |
Message #122325, posted by filecore at 05:52, 28/4/2013, in reply to message #122280 |
Posts: 3867
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I had pretty much decided to go for 4.39 rom sets to improve os and aid Internet access, but I'm more confused again, If you're getting it just for DHCP support, but you have already even the slightest knowledge of how to set up a static IP, then don't bother. DHCP isn't worth some of the other hassle you'll be giving yourself  |
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Andrew Rawnsley |
Message #122326, posted by arawnsley at 12:44, 28/4/2013, in reply to message #122325 |
R-Comp chap
Posts: 594
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I'd agree with Jason - DHCP is a bit, erm, quirky on RISC OS, as it uses the same UI as manual IP addresses. It's not really clear what's needed and what's not, so I'd recommend just picking a network address in the same range as your router, and just filling it in by hand.
Also, as someone interested in old games, I'd suggest you don't go much more modern than OS4, and some might say 3.70. In my view, OS4 is a good half-way between old and new, and we don't test our software pre-OS4 any more. As such, OS4 provides a nice baseline OS version, which is new enough that you're not missing out, but still old enough for "retro" stuff. |
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Eric Rucker |
Message #122327, posted by bhtooefr at 17:50, 28/4/2013, in reply to message #122325 |
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Posts: 337
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If you do use a static IP, though, I would advise going into your router's settings, and assign a static lease. (It's best practice normally to pull DHCP using the static lease anyway, and that's what I do on my serverish boxes, but understandably, that's not always practical.)
This does a couple things for you:
1. It ensures that that IP isn't handed out to another client, which would cause an IP address conflict. (This isn't an issue if you put the RISC OS host at an IP that isn't part of the normal DHCP pool, though.)
2. It also gives a convenient reference for what IPs are in use, so when you configure another static device, you have one place to look things up.
3. At least on my router (with DD-WRT), it also guarantees that DNS lookups on that hostname work properly (not a HUGE deal on your local network with a RISC OS machine, but it's still the best practice). Normally, when a machine pulls a DHCP lease, it supplies the router with its hostname, and the router's internal DNS server can then supply the correct IP for that hostname. However, if you're not getting a DHCP lease, setting a static assignment in the router's configuration can (at least on DD-WRT) make that hostname always map to that IP in DNS.
[Edited by bhtooefr at 17:50, 28/4/2013]
[Edited by bhtooefr at 17:52, 28/4/2013] |
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Jon Abbott |
Message #122328, posted by sirbod at 21:20, 28/4/2013, in reply to message #122324 |
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@Jon - Firstly - thanks for addfs ... I'm a little lost on all the uses of this software - bar my basic use of it for disk images - as it does seem to help getting software running also - would it help with any StrongARM compatibility? Its primary use is imaging and emulating protected discs and the RO3.1 environment. There are no fixes for StrongARM compatibility yet, it is planned though.
Also what support you need for JASPP - is there any website for this outside of the Icon Bar forum thread that I found once before.... The web site is still in development, this site will remain the home for the time being. As for support, we need good ARM coders, people skilled in PDF creation and Photoshop experts that can assist with the scan sets, the higher priority though is people to assist in tracking down rights holders and seek permission to release under the project. I'll post an update soon on the JASPP thread. |
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jon black |
Message #122343, posted by forestman at 21:45, 1/5/2013, in reply to message #122327 |
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Posts: 25
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@eric.... Help!
I have just bought and connected up an I cubed etherlan 600. I've also got uniboot and updated most system modules to something newer. But after an evening of sweat and tears, I've not yet got onto the web....
I've basically got a setup at home with a virgin superhub feeding into a Belkin router (I did this so I could force a proxy server to norton to block dodgy Internet sites, something virgin kindly don't allow you to do directly). This router is on 192.168.2 .1
Currently I have the system set up with DHCP on.
That is good for the many devices we connect (2 pcs, 2 iPads, 2 phones...). However despite following Paul vigays advice on setting up the rather quirky Internet access, I can't for the life of me set it up. http://www.riscos.org/networking/riscos.html
I am guessing it is because it is trying to assign an IP address for my Pc whilst I am guessing what it is assigning (setting up Risc pc as 192.168.2.10 for example). It is using dhcp me not...
However if i tell my router to stop using dhcp and use static ip then all my wireless items fall over, my wife shouts at me that she can't connect to the web because of "that bloody new old computer thing". I seem to be able to sort that out manually and for example am typing this on my iPad connected via a static IP address....however.....still can't get the acorn to connect....
Finally I have not got a darned clue what I put in for the name servers. 192.168.2.1? DNS addresses? (Seemed obvious but none worked...)
So...
Do I Need to bite the bullet and continue to plug away forcing the whole network to static, and muddle through setting each item manually to connect to the system?
If so I am guessing the pc and apple items will be connectable....apple definitely ok.... however if i do this...any tips for the acorn?
Thanks!
[Edited by forestman at 22:05, 1/5/2013]
[Edited by forestman at 22:27, 1/5/2013] |
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Paul Vernon |
Message #122344, posted by PaulV at 23:56, 1/5/2013, in reply to message #122343 |
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Posts: 135
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I fitted an i-Cubed etherLAN to my new RISC PC this week and got it on the net in minutes.
I posted a quick "how-to" on all of this many months ago on Stardot...
The relevant thread is here:
http://www.stardot.org.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=5486&hilit=DNS#p50857
I'm on Virgin too so I can confirm that your DNS servers should be
194.168.4.100
and
194.168.8.100
as per the screenshots in that thread.
Paul |
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Jason Togneri |
Message #122345, posted by filecore at 06:33, 2/5/2013, in reply to message #122343 |
Posts: 3867
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I am guessing it is because it is trying to assign an IP address for my Pc whilst I am guessing what it is assigning (setting up Risc pc as 192.168.2.10 for example). It is using dhcp me not...
However if i tell my router to stop using dhcp and use static ip then all my wireless items fall over There is a lot of stuff about this on the internet, but long story short, you can use a mixture of dynamic and static IPs, you don't need to switch everything from one or the other. Just make sure that the static IPs aren't in the dynamic range (your router will have a setting saying something like "Set dynamic range from 192.168.2.10 to 192.168.2.50" where you can set it as you like. Alternatively you can also just set the static IP within the range, but really high up (eg 192.168.2.200) where you're never likely to have a clash (a home network wouldn't normally have so many devices connecting in so short a time as to reach that IP). |
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Eric Rucker |
Message #122350, posted by bhtooefr at 10:32, 2/5/2013, in reply to message #122343 |
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Posts: 337
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If you're setting the RISC OS machine up as DHCP, it should in theory Just Work, but there may be some twiddling necessary. I don't have a RISC OS 4.39 box handy (other than RPCEmu on OS X, which doesn't support networking at all, last I checked), and my RiscPC (which has 6.20 on it right now) doesn't run stably any more and is in storage, so I'm unable to see what needs to be done there.
These directions are if you're setting it up as a static IP.
Get the network info from one of your existing machines.
On a Windows machine, open a command prompt (on XP and older, Start, Run, cmd.exe, on Vista or newer, just type cmd.exe in the search in the start menu).
Type the following: ipconfig /all
You should get something like this, between the equal signs:
===============
C:\Documents and Settings\Administrator>ipconfig /all
Windows IP Configuration
Host Name . . . . . . . . . . . . : eric-53d63ae683
Primary Dns Suffix . . . . . . . :
Node Type . . . . . . . . . . . . : Hybrid
IP Routing Enabled. . . . . . . . : No
WINS Proxy Enabled. . . . . . . . : No
DNS Suffix Search List. . . . . . : localdomain
Ethernet adapter Local Area Connection:
Connection-specific DNS Suffix . : localdomain
Description . . . . . . . . . . . : VMware Accelerated AMD PCNet Adapter
Physical Address. . . . . . . . . : 00-0C-29-D7-C8-68
Dhcp Enabled. . . . . . . . . . . : Yes
Autoconfiguration Enabled . . . . : Yes
IP Address. . . . . . . . . . . . : 172.16.167.129
Subnet Mask . . . . . . . . . . . : 255.255.255.0
Default Gateway . . . . . . . . . : 172.16.167.2
DHCP Server . . . . . . . . . . . : 172.16.167.254
DNS Servers . . . . . . . . . . . : 172.16.167.2
Primary WINS Server . . . . . . . : 172.16.167.2
Lease Obtained. . . . . . . . . . : Thursday, May 02, 2013 5:19:17 AM
Lease Expires . . . . . . . . . . : Thursday, May 02, 2013 5:49:17 AM
Ethernet adapter Bluetooth Network Connection:
Media State . . . . . . . . . . . : Media disconnected
Description . . . . . . . . . . . : Bluetooth Device (Personal Area Netw
ork)
Physical Address. . . . . . . . . : 14-10-9F-CF-6B-74
===============
You're interested in the IP address, subnet mask, default gateway, and DNS servers. The DNS server and default gateway should match your router, unless you're doing something weird - default gateway always should. Subnet mask is probably 255.255.255.0. The first three octets of your IP should be the same as the router if the mask is 255.255.255.0. Write down all of those, and go ahead and put the gateway, subnet mask, and DNS server info into RISC OS's network configuration. You'll still need an IP address, though.
This will depend on your router, and some Belkin routers don't actually support this properly. Look in its settings for "static DHCP assignment", "static lease", or terms like that. If you can find it, come up with a name for the RiscPC, get its MAC address, set an IP address (avoid ones that are currently in use - you may see a list of DHCP clients, follow that list), and save the settings. Make sure to assign that hostname and IP address to the RISC OS machine.
If you can't find a setting like that, look for the settings for the DHCP server. There'll probably be a range of IP addresses that it's using. If that range is any smaller than 2 to 254, then pick any number from 2 to 254 that's NOT in that range, WRITE IT DOWN, and then set your RISC OS machine's IP address with that number as the last number. If the range is 2 to 254, shrink it - my local network defaulted to 100 to 149, and that's plenty of IP addresses.
[Edited by bhtooefr at 10:33, 2/5/2013] |
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jon black |
Message #122351, posted by forestman at 21:11, 2/5/2013, in reply to message #122345 |
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Posts: 25
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Thanks Jason, yep mine has dynamic for first 100. I did try 101 last night but must have done something stupid....as that failed also.
Thanks also Paul for the link and info. I may be being dumb today but don't know if my use of proxy servers sending all web via norton is impacting the dns...
Thanks also to Eric, useful way of me getting the info aside from logging in directly to the router which was my route yesterday.
I will give it a go again tomorrow as my wife expects me to talk to her tonight...  . Very keen to get the RISC pc online so I can download some software.....it came with almost no updates more recent than about 1997......and all my old disk images were from so 3.11 and have a pretty poor hit rate....!!!! |
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jon black |
Message #122361, posted by forestman at 17:54, 3/5/2013, in reply to message #122350 |
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Posts: 25
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This is doing my nut now!
I have all the information that you defined above.
It does not list IP address, but IPv4 address. That shows 192.168.2.x. (x varying depending on which computer i run ipconfig obviously!)
Default gateway 192.168.2.1
DNS Servers are 198.153.192.50 - Norton set by me
DNS Server 2 198.153.194.50 - other norton
Subnet Mask is 255.255.255.0
I chose to set my RISCPC to 192.168.2.101 - as DHCP for first 100.
My PC has said "whoa! 192.168.2.101 has connected to the network". So something is happening.
However !Arcweb (my only browser atm) will not connect to the web. Its DNS lookup jobby spots the DNS for the first norton site...
So in full.....
Boot -> Configure -> Network
->Acorn Access Enabled
Internet
-> TCP/IP enabled
Interfaces
->Icubed selected
Interfaces -> Configure
IP address 192.168.2.101
Netmask 255.255.255.0
IP address manually
Routing
Gateway 192.168.2.1
No other items selected
Host Names
Host Name: RISCPC
Local domain: Belkin
Primary name server: 198.153.192.50
Secondary name server: 198.153.194.50
Hosts File
Added definition at bottom for:
127.0.0.1 loopback localhost loghost
192.168.2.1 Belkin
192.168.2.101 RISCPC
Where have I gone wrong? Is it IPv4? Is it the Arcweb program??? Help??!!!
THANKS!!
[Edited by forestman at 17:55, 3/5/2013] |
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jon black |
Message #122362, posted by forestman at 18:52, 3/5/2013, in reply to message #122361 |
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Posts: 25
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I should also be clear that I can't get any input in the web browser - e.g. 192.168.2.1 does not pull up the router either.
I know I could be missing something exceptionally dumb. I have a wired connection from RISCPC to the router.
The Webster DNS checker seems to find some information e.g. Norton, so unless it has its own lookup library it is getting that information, just can't get diddy squat in terms of connections.
I'm also too inept to know how I can force my PC to try to access the RISCPC. I have tried command line pinging, and I get "request timed out".... |
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Paul Vernon |
Message #122363, posted by PaulV at 19:01, 3/5/2013, in reply to message #122361 |
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Posts: 135
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That all looks fine. I'd try to rule our Norton's DNS servers though by changing the DNS entries to your Virgin ones which should be
194.168.4.100
and
194.168.8.100
Also, just try pinging your router and then something on the Internet by IP address.
I have a few servers that should respond to pings.... Try 217.147.87.67. It's a server co-located in Maidenhead and should respond.
If everything responds, try pinging www.retro-kit.co.uk. That's on the server with the IP address I stated above. If that doesn't work, something is blocking your machines DNS lookups.
Paul |
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jon black |
Message #122364, posted by forestman at 20:03, 3/5/2013, in reply to message #122363 |
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Posts: 25
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I had already pinged your network 217.147.82.67 from your other post...works fine - that above doesn't
also pinging www.google.com pings fine too.
and pinging my other internet computers
and pinging my router
and www.retro-kit.co.uk...
but neither webster nor arcweb will access a single darned site...
off to eat dinner....any further clues much appreciated.....! |
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Paul Vernon |
Message #122365, posted by PaulV at 20:18, 3/5/2013, in reply to message #122364 |
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Posts: 135
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The 87 was a typo sorry, it should have been 82 which you used.
In that case, we've ruled out DNS as an issue entirely as the resolver is resolving names to IP addresses for pinging, there's no reason it shouldn't be working for other apps.
Now, I know ArcWeb better than Webster but I need to refresh my memory so I'll have a look at Arcweb settings and report back for you what they should be.
Paul
[Edited by PaulV at 20:27, 3/5/2013] |
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The Icon Bar: General: RISCOS versions and features |
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